Large Brush Pot

[Stan]

Hi Peter, this appears to be a large brush pot, the size is 20 cm high and the 28.4 cm wide, I am sending 14 photos to view, I am not expecting you to interpret the poem, but I am hoping that there is something in the Characters that could reveal the age, thanks so much for your expertise.

[Stan]

Here are more photos to view the characters.

[Stan]

More pictures of the brush pot.

[Stan]

Last set of photos, thanks again for viewing.

[peterp]

It says Kangxi, cyclical year: ??. The text seems to be a Buddhist sutra. You did not mention dimensions. Depending on these it is more likely either a container for scrolls (writing,paintings), or censer.

But I think this is either late Qing or more recent. Personally I think it is likely more recent. Colors of glaze and blue pigment are not quite right.
The shape is not right for Kangxi either. The sides of Kangxi pots are either slightly bent (outward), or straight up. The character for "Kang" is also not written in the manner of that period. It also seems that the character style is not the specific style of that period.
Any age signs? An unglazed bottom or interior easily gets that color even if it is not that old. All in all it looks too perfect for the period. Kangxi brush pots of that period covered with all writing would be rather pricey.

[Stan]

Hi Peter, the dimensions are, height is 20 cm and the length is 28.4 I thought it to be at least 100 years old because of the green spots in the red glaze areas, I was told that in copper red glazes that over time green spots will form in the glaze and it is evident here in the reddish glazed areas, could the date be 1927, that would make more sense to me, there are scratches and very few imperfections, and the unglazed bottom as you mentioned.

[peterp]

Stan, I do not know anything about green forming after time. Green can be present in any red mineral based color, as far as I know, right after firing. The colors are dependent on kiln temperature and oxidation in the kiln, it seems. There are glazes that use this to make a mixed color decoration, but the resulting color after firing seems to be difficult to control.
I cannot see why someone would want to use a Kangxi mark with a cyclical year that is some 200 years later. It would be more plausible if someone just copied from a Kangxi original. But the item is with you, you should be in a better position to judge age. How about the pot shape, and the foot rim shape?

[Stan]

In copper red glazes only do these greenish spots form, copper as you know will turn green over time, the copper in the glaze will develop green spots, this is true in all copper red glazed antiques, how ever the green spots can be faked, so it looks like that is what I have here is a fake, the shape and the unglazed bottom as you stated, the surface of this pot dose not look that old to me as far as Kangxi Period, I never thought it was from that period but possibly late Qing or republic, I was hoping to narrow it down to the period it was made, thanks Peter for your expertise.

[peterp]

Stan, copper was the base mineral for both, red and green glazes, but iron was used for red, green and brown (and black). I am not that sure that this underglaze red color is based on copper.
Color tone is a matter of firing temperature, oxidation and glaze composition. With copper a bright red would only develop during the cooling process. The content needed to be controlled in a very small range, otherwise the resulting color could be anywhere from pink to brown.

[Stan]

I was watching the Antique Road Show and an appraiser appraised a Flambe vase that had a Copper red glaze, they showed minute details in the glaze and he said this is how you can tell if it is old by the green spots that form over time, if I'm not mistaken he said it was from the Qianlong period, the vase also had unmistakable pitting through out the vase, these two factors he said authenticate this period and because the vase was broken he appraised it at $38,000. and said if it had not been broken it would have appraised around $80,000. If the green spots could form during the firing process then I do not think that would be used for authenticating a genuine vase.

[peterp]

Flambe is a top glaze, not an underglaze decoration. That is something completely different, I'm afraid.
With underglaze red the green color develops during oxidation in the kiln, that is for sure. That is common knowledge here. Last night I had the opportunity to discuss what you said (regarding a slow oxidation of this over time) with a VERY knowledgeable collector of several decades, who also has had opportunities to learn things first hand from Chinese researchers, including one directly involved with archaeological excavations in Jingdezhen). I am always willing to learn something new, but this theory of slow oxidation is new to me.
He confirmed that the green color is already there when the items come out of the kiln. There is no such thing as a long term oxidation with this, it happens all during the temperature changes within the kiln. Your item looks as if there is bleeding from certain spots. That is not normal. Green dots (small dots) not looking the same as those on your item are known to have been frequent in underglaze red of the Yongzheng reign, they disappeared again during the Qianlong reign, probably due to changes in material or manufacturing. That is all...again, color glazes on the surface of an item and underglaze red pigments are different matters.

Stan, this color is not the key to whether your item could be antique or not. There are several factors that point to a later item, in my view.

[peterp]

When I have time I may try to find what they have in research papers on the subject.

[Stan]

Hi Peter, You are right, I searched the Antique Roadshow archive and found the vase and you can watch the show on live video, I don't know what I was thinking but I could have swore that it was their that I saw them talking about the copper red glazes, I will have to debunk  everything I said about the red copper glaze and the green spots, I wondered why I never seen anything on your site, know I know, thanks again Peter for setting the record straight on my behalf.

[peterp]

That is fine, Stan. We need to consider all options at all times - and keep learning. I am ready for new information any time. And a critical mind is important to get you forward with authentication.

[kardinalisimo]

Stand, did not you say before that an appraiser at some auction house told you that the green spots and the pitting on the flambe vase that you had were signs of it being old?
Correct me if wrong but the piece can come out of the kiln already with pitting.