Another Famille Rose Celadon Plate Age? Mark?

[Kaaren B.]

Good evening, all. I have acquired a new famille rose celadon plate today. This one is slightly larger and more detailed than the one I posted here a couple of months ago. I believe this one is also 19th century?

There is on the underside of the bowl, close to the foot rim, what I thought was a paint smudge, but with a magnifying glass, I saw that it was a tiny painted red flower. It was too small for me to get a clear image with my phone camera. You can just get a glimpse of it, like mark, just outside the foot-rim.

I have not seen before such a thing on one of these. Is it an insignia of some kind?

My photos do not do justice to the luminous beauty of the enamel work, especially on the butterflies. The peonies are all a lovely purple-red color.

To my eyes, the work on this plate is exceptional.

Information on age, the mark (both the one on the bottom and the curious tiny flower next to the foot-rim) appreciated, as always. KB

[peterp]

This is typical Canton ware. Jiaging or Daoguang reign. The mark appears to be Jiaqing, but could also have been used in the early Daoguang reign.
Plates of this kind show usually birds and butterflies on a floral background. 
The green leaves look more like fencai enamel, while the butterflies and bird may be Canton enamel. Such plates are usually painted on top of a celadon glaze.

[Kaaren B.]

Thank you, Peter!

What is "fencai" enamel?

So, am I correct that this could be earlier than the first celadon plate I posted?

The colors do seem a bit richer on this one when I place the two celadon plates side by side.

Many thanks, as always. KB

[peterp]

https://www.chinese-antique-porcelain.com/decoration-types.html

[Kaaren B.]

Thank you, Peter! I had not heard of fencai or falangai before. KB

[Matthew Munafo]

Hi Kaaren, Peter,

You have a very nice plate and I believe it has an interesting history. 

If you can pick up the book, China to Order by Daniel Nadler, he takes a few pages to explain the consequences of the Taiping Rebellion which started in 1850.  In short, all the kilns were destroyed in Jingdezhen which stopped porcelain production for quite some time.  While production seized for a few years, maybe more, the artists in Canton continued to decorate the blanks in their supply houses until they ran out.  Apparently, Jingdezhen produced celadon plates like this one with a white base and underglaze blue shop mark.  I can't really say how many years earlier they were made.  But, presumably they were not popular at the time they were introduced and so they were stockpiled for a rainy day.  That rainy day arrived shortly after 1850's destruction of the kilns.  When Canton ran out of blanks to paint, they turned to the celadon stockpile made many years earlier.

I might have some facts mixed up here, but you can read about your plate in China to Order in the section that discusses the Taping Rebellion.

Technically speaking, your plate could have been produced as early as the 18th century as a blank, but not painted and decorated until the white blanks were exhausted which I presume to be in the early to mid 1850's.

Of course this message is about six months late.  :)

I thought I'd share this anyway in the event you get a notification to revisit this thread.


Best Regards,
-mpm



Matthew P. Munafo | 马修-穆纳佛           

MANAGING DIRECTOR and DEALER OF ASIAN ART & ANTIQUES | ROOM TONIC ASIAN ART


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[peterp]

Hi Matthew,
Thanks for commenting. I agree with most of what you mention, but the 1850s as production time is a bit late, perhaps, if we assume that the marks were added at the same time as the decoration.
These are Jiaqing marks which were probably used no later than the early Daoguang reign (Daoguang 1821 ~1850). Anything affecting production at that time would have been more likely due to the opium wars, I believe. Marks of the previous reign were often used only in the early years of the following reign.
I have a book from the Guangzhou (formerly Canton) museum that may be dating such plates. Will check that when I'm home.