Large Crackle Underglaze Blue Export Bowl

[kardinalisimo]

This is the dirtiest piece I've ever seen. The good news is that I will probably be able to clean it. I used some acetone on the interior and it seems to work. Hope it won't hurt anything.
I guess it is an export bowl. Still have not researched on the symbols at the center.
Now the base. Is 1790 the year the piece was made and who put it there?
Thanks

[peterp]

I'm afraid, first impression, seeing the underside, was this is another fake. The year written below deepened this impression.  Things do not get that dirty expect when they were made that way. This is copying a Kraak pattern, but not very convincingly.
This is definitely not Chinese...neither does it look like Delft or Japanese ware to me. These would be about the only places where VOC plates would have been made.

Perhaps made in SE Asia.
My personal opinion.

[shelley Kong]

All I can say is that the plate doesn't look Chinese, nor is the 1790 on the bottom.

[Stan]

The way that the 1790 is written is in an old English style numerals, during that period.

[kardinalisimo]

Thanks for the VOC clue. I never knew about it
Most of the examples i found online are from 17th century. VOC went bankrupt  in 1798 so IF this is real it would have been done at the very end of the company's existence.
I am not sure but seems that most of these are Arita ware and don't have crackles. 
Any idea if the originals should have spur marks on the bottom?
As far as the nasty tarnish, it comes off but slowly. I don't know if I will be able to get rid of it. I don't know if such discoloration can naturally occur on porcelain. I found some wax on the surface but doubt that smoke can cause that.
The '1790' on the bottom is surely not a good sign for the piece being authentic  but i hope to find another example with a date, even a fake one.
I know nothing about the provenance of the piece  but the place I got it from usually bring items from old people houses. There were few other old imari plates that possibly came from the same place.
I am thinking if that was an attempt for faking it was too overplayed.

[Stan]

Try using comet cleaner, it should clean up.

[peterp]

I would forget the possibility of this being Japanese. The pattern is a Kraak pattern, which originated in China. Japanese copies of Kraak wares are of a much higher quality than this.
Early Arita plates possibly took the hint for their rim pattern from such wares. This is a really low quality copy, in my opinion. With that I mean it does not resemble the original wares at all, mainly because of a completely different painting style.

I did not want to say this so explicitly, but the bottom and painting style look very much like Indonesian fakes I've seen. I mentioned Delft because this plate is distinctly non-Chinese/non-Japanese, but the Delft wares I have seen are more like other European wares, quality-wise.

I think you get too much drawn in by this as being an "apparent" antique because of the crackling. Always consider the possibility of the whole being painted on a plain, old porcelain body. Check if the blue is underneath the glaze. Scratch it with a knife or tool. If it comes off, it is on top and the blue was added later. Another possibility is that the crackles are not that old. Anyway, the bottom looks as if there is age-faking present. Did it not occur to you that it is strange that the bottom is that dirty, while the top is not? And why should the underside be glossy when it is that dirty?

Really, I mentioned somewhere that "dirt" is one of the things people (we) most easily fall for when buying "antiques". Fact is that antiques seldom look that way, even if they were excavated hundreds of years later. And the color of any soil does not look this way, usually. Also, the blue color tone is just too bright for any item of the late Ming/Qing period this imitates.

[kardinalisimo]

Never thought why the back was dirtier than the decorated are. Even now, after cleaning, the underside is still more brownish. Don't know if it will ever go white. Any idea what do they use to make the fake pieces look like that? The foot rim is coated in brown. Is that seen on real pieces?

I believe the blue is under the glaze. If it was over, the acetone would have whipped it off, or not? I am not saying the crackles are sign of age but that I did not see them on other VOC plates. Plus, crackling can be faked too.
I read that the last phase of production for VOC had some differences, like slightly bluish glaze, less moth nibble, better firing techniques, no kiln grit, no chatter marks and probably other.  That is from Rinaldi's Kraak porcelain book and it would be nice to know more details but I don't have an access to it. I am also curious if VOC porcelain was done in other Asian countries besides Japan and China

[tonny joeswanto]

The plate is singkawang made.  Why I say it fake  Because the targets is to fool the buyer and gaining much money for only the VOC letter. Singkawang is the city in borneo :)

 

[tonny joeswanto]

I like this baluster ewer though the VOC mark is reglazing . This vase is celadon green glaze like qing dynasty celadon vase. The crackle ice is perfect. But modern reglazing is made me sad.
Than I say that this vase is Fake..:) the vase is mine..:)..is still fake..

[Stan]

I see your bowl cleaned up nicely, I have only seen this on new Chinese fakes, I have a couple bowls that was covered with this stuff, Im not sure what it is that is applied to the surface but it was applied to give the appearance of age,  on mine comet was the only cleaner that worked real good

[kardinalisimo]

I tried comet but did not helped much. I used the poweder one, regular, not the x2 bleach. Maybe I should have used a brush or something but did not want to scratch the surface.
Looks much better now but the underside is still dark. I am also curious what in the world they used to do it like that.

[Stan]

It is some kind of a tar almost like nicotine or something like that, I could not get mine off with regular dish soap so I tried the comet in powder form and a cleaning rage and it took some scrubbing but it came off with out hurting the enamels.