Song conical blue celadon glaze bowl w/ Japanese Box

[smak]

Hi all,

What do you guys think? Also are there a lot of replicas coming out of Japan? I do notice some sellers do sell with these Japanese boxes.

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more

[peterp]

>>Also are there a lot of replicas coming out of Japan?

Compared to where?  Japan has the same problem as the West, lots of genuine items, but you still need to watch it and know your intended wares.
There are also sellers who call everything 'imperial' or anything, but they have really no idea. This said, in the Far East many think that for Yuan and earlier items Japan is THE place where there still many are to have at reasonable prices. But they have little Ming/Qing wares of high quality, and almost no Qing export wares. That is because of the preference of the early collectors.

[smak]

AH I see Peter, that makes a lot of sense!

What are your thoughts on this bowl up top? When do you think that was made? South Song? And I dont know nothing about these types of Song bowls, are they desirable?

[peterp]

The foot rim makes it difficult to know. I looked at shards and whole items to get some understanding, for two years, but there are too many fakes to be always sure. And Jun glazed items have been made from the Song dynasty to the Ming dynasty, the Jun kiln systems has had probably more than a few hundred individual kilns, stretching from todays Inner Mongolia to the Yangtse river. First make sure from whom you buy. Sellers who do not know their wares will not get the real thing. They are not that plenty. Personally I think the probability that this is from a later kiln, not an original Jun kiln is high, with this base. The wares have been imitated by Qing dynasty kilns in southern China too, as far as I know.

As written on the box this may be Jun ware. If it is, then it is a very good item. Jun items with such relatively smooth items are not easy to get. And the era affects price. With this I am not sure because it seems that the foot rim was dyed, the gray color where it was abraded shows this. I could not tell if this is authentic or not. Jun theoretically is one of the famous Song wares, but many which were attributed to Song were in recent years reattributed to Ming. It seems this was because some shapes of "Song" Jun wares were similar to Ming shapes rather than Song ones.

Buy only if you are ready to pay tuition, and not expensive. :)  Jun glazes are usually relatively thick and may have more or less heavy pitting (from burst glaze bubbles), but those which have less of these and are old are quite high in demand, it seems.

If you want to get involved in Yuan and older wares like Jun and the like I would recommend you get some information from books, reliable Internet sources, etc.  This is a wholly different type of specialty. In China many learn only either about the Ming, Qing and later wares, or only about the Yuan and earlier wares. It is necessary to study kiln specific wares or specialize on certain types.

[smak]

haha I see!

Thanks for the detailed breakdown! This seems like an expensive lesson for me! Seller is asking $800.. I do like these Song bowls just don't know much about them enough to buy them.

Also this might sound like a stupid question, but why is there little to none Yuan dynasty porcelains or antiques in general out there? It feels like they're all dried up and only have Song then Ming and Qing.

[peterp]

In the west? The Ming and Qing wares appealed to the early collectors. It is/was a matter of preference, probably. Generally said, those earlier wares were never that plenty in the west, but the Chinese and Japanese seem to fancy the earlier ones more. Song was a peak of porcelain production and the dynasty was very long, so there were more made, overall. Buch of the Song wares were probably going to the west in more recent times, not centuries ago, for collecting purposes. The Ming and Qing wares were new when exported, and meant for actual use.