Kangxi Plate 8.5" with Mark

smak · Apr 03, 2021, 23:56:03

Hi all,

What do you guys think?

smak · Apr 03, 2021, 23:56:25

more!

Some have marks and some dont?

smak · Apr 03, 2021, 23:56:43

more

smak · Apr 03, 2021, 23:57:06

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smak · Apr 03, 2021, 23:58:15

more!

I just bought this set of plates and cups for $115! The cups I know are not old but I assume the plates are Kangxi.. Please let me know what you guys think! I hope I did okay!

Stan · Apr 04, 2021, 00:49:29

Im thinking late Qing, the 4 Character kangxi mark was used a lot during the Guangxu period, they also did a lot of Kangxi revival, note the dragons tail, the end is to rounded and the blue late Qing, the foot looks to be older, perhaps older blanks that was redecorated at a late time, How thick are these?.

smak · Apr 04, 2021, 01:03:07

Hi Stan,

I'm not entirely sure, the moment I saw these were for sale I had to purchase them right away. Should arrive next week! I'll circle back on the thickness! It does make sense to be Guangxu! I do feel pretty good with the purchase over all! Couldn't pass up on them since it's a set for $115. The seller said they've had it for 55 years prior and was only used for display!

Thanks Stan!

smak · Apr 04, 2021, 03:19:20

Hi Stan,

Would these plates be made for export? My understanding is that 4 claw dragons are made for the prince and 5 claws are for the emperor. And 3 for normal civilians is that correct? Would this be an imperial ware?

Also what is the collectors value on this? Are they desirable?

Stan · Apr 04, 2021, 04:47:13

Yes, these were made for export, and a five claw dragon was for the emperor, the four claw was for officials and so on, late Qing not so much although the fear of using the imperial 5 claw dragon still was in the minds of potters and so it was limited, I have one vase with a four claw dragon but on one of the dragons foot is 4 claws and one partly toe seen, it was like they wanted to draw a 5 claw but out fear a partial toe is seen indicating 5 claws or may be I am just drawing to much into it, It has been a while since I discussed this with Peter, I still have the vase that has the partial toe, but in Traditional Chinese porcelain the potters were forbidden to make 5 claw dragons they were reserved for imperial use and Four and Three toe dragons were given as gifts and used for export.

smak · Apr 04, 2021, 07:08:46

Interesting Stan! Any chance you could show us pictures of the vase? Would love to see an example of hesitation on the last toe!

Is there a reason why 4 claw dragons were exported and some for officials? Usually exported to where exactly?

Stan · Apr 04, 2021, 15:13:19

Hi Smak, three of the claws are hidden in the vegetation and the one that is clear is clearly showing 5 toe's , I believe that kilns were painting the 4 and 3 claw dragons for export all through the Qing dynasty and it is possible that diplomats could have been given porcelain gifts with 5 and 4 claws, but it is certain that the Chinese exported porcelain that was decorated with 4 and 3 claws to Europe and to the west

peterp · Apr 04, 2021, 17:34:59

Perhaps it is better forgetting about the number of claws on porcelains from the late Qing dynasty. Nor sure from when exactly, but the rule about the claws were not enforced anymore in the Guangxu reign, I believe.
Not sure if that was ever enforced on export porcelain. The tail tip is late Qing dynasty. Parts of the decoration, like the waves and some trees resemble Kangxi, but the mark would be late Qing also, or later. I don't think I have seen this decoration on late Qing wares, though. It was most common on Qianlong export.
Looking at the base it looks as if there was kiln grit an both sides of the foot rim. Is this right? Is the latter slanted on the outside?

smak · Apr 05, 2021, 03:57:31

Hi Peter,

I'm not sure on the kiln grit on the foot rim, its coming in next week and will circle back with better pictures!

Would this be a weird case then? Decoration doesnt match late Qing, but seen on Qianlong wares, and with Kangxi mark but looks to be Guangxu era.. I'm a bit confused!

smak · Apr 05, 2021, 03:59:44

And what a beautiful vase Stan! And I did see the 5 claws being hidden in a way.. It does beg the question of the artist's attempts to hide it. I see, that makes sense! I must say, the plate is painted very beautifully!

JjGhandi · Apr 10, 2021, 05:44:14

Hi Smak,

These are Guangxu items.
The 4 character Kangxi mark and kiln grit on the base are a giveaway for this period.
This definitely not Kangxi or 18th century.

The main decoration is based on typical 18th century export plates.
But the dragons chasing the flaming pearl is a Chinese taste feature.

A mix of these elements is not normal for 18th century wares.

Also the dragon claw rule is invalid for items of the Guangxu reign as Peter said.

Kind regards,

JJ