Ming Charger 14"

[smak]

Hi All,

What do you guys think of this? This is about 14" wide and 3" tall.

Definitely Ming but not sure when.

[smak]

more

[smak]

Although there is some chips and two hairlines.. I thought I couldnt pass up on this.

[smak]

Wow! I had no idea Stan! This was more of a gamble for me, I am still learning as a collector! Not going to lie, I only started collecting porcelain on and off about 5-6 years ago! I really appreciate your honesty! This is actually my first charger, I normally cant find deals/ dishes at this size! I knew it was Ming for sure and just took a shot at the dark! The seller also has a Yuan ink pot? I was also tempted at that but not sure if its actually Yuan or earlier. Also I know we're not supposed to talk value, however if you do have pieces you are selling please send me your online store page! Would like to purchase as well!

What era is this from?

[Stan]

Hi Smak, I have friends of mine that come over every once and awhile to view my collection and he had to have it, so I sold it to him and for awhile I was selling at one of the Oregon state antique shows but it has been a few years since I set up their, as soon as the Covid is over I will set up again, it is fun selling at the Antique shows, it has been awhile and I am looking forward for the next show, who knows when that will be.
Also I would like to point out that your Charger has a crack and that dose effect the Value, but I still think you got a good deal.

[smak]

Hi Stan, unfortunately I am located in NYC! Do you have an online store by any chance? Would like to buy from a more reputable source!

Can you private message me your email if you dont have an online store?

[admin]

[admin] Several posts removed from topic on request.

[peterp]

Hi smak,
Your and samborsu's posts induced me to do some research on the Chinese internet and in my books. As a result I believe now that it is Ming dynasty Zhangzhou export ware. Zhangzhou ware is what formerly was erroneously called Swatow ware; but it is not a kiln per se, but rather the export location of multiple kilns, that gave the wares the name. The two larger kilns supplying Zhangzhou wares were Zhangpu and Heping kilns. Both are mentioned in various sources (also shipwreck porcelain) with plates/chargers of a similar design. I did not find an exactly similar decoration, but many plates have similar floral designs, without the outer rim decoration. I found that rimon other Zhangzhou plates, though.
I even found an item in a book that said it was Yuan, but I doubt this is correct. There are too many instances related to the above mentioned Ming ceramics. The base of the plate also supports late Ming.

(Peripheral information:
Zhangzhou wares were exported in large numbers to Japan and the west until the last Ming sea ban was hindering export (although it is said that they continued smuggling the porcelain out by ship even then). Afterwards Zhangzhou decreased in importance and the main export port shifted to  Quanzhou, farther north, as far as I know.)

My personal view is that despite the above explanation does not preclude one hundred percent that the item could be Vietnamese. Somehow I feel that I saw this decoration on Vietnamese items too. But this would come as no surprise as the last Ming sea ban is thought to have been one of the reasons that kiln workers emigrated to Vietnam (no work), which in turn would be the reason for many similar blue and white decorations there. Maybe someone with sufficient books or documentation on Vietnamese shipwreck porcelain could check this...even if it is only to remove that possibility.

[JjGhandi]

Looks Swatow indeed.
Similar decorations found although non alike.
Diaper rim decoration I've seen once but mostly intermittent with flowers.

However, the color does not seem right.
This looks black-ish, like Hongwu wares, swatow ware is much more blueish.

Foot rim is suspicious too in my opinion.

Kind regards,

JJ

[peterp]

The wares were made over the Jiajing and Tianqi reigns, a fairly long period, and underwent changes. Some earlier ones can have a more yellowish glaze and grayish decoration. The thickness of the plates appears to have changed too over time.