Double glazed famille rose punch bowl

[kardinalisimo]

The whole piece is glazed over the paints.
Any idea if that was done to protect te enamels or is some kind of fake?
If authentic, what period?
Thanks

[kardinalisimo]

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[kardinalisimo]

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[kardinalisimo]

Now when I look closer the deoration on the rim appears to be with more raised enamels. Is it possible it was added later?

[Stan]

Hi Kardinalisimo, this is a modern piece, I have a couple my self.

[kardinalisimo]

Are yours having glaze over and that green/yellowish tint? Browned foot rim?

[Stan]

No, yours are nicer than mine but the wemen are the same, same hair styles, and everything is out lined in black, maybe from the 50's or later, lets see what Peter says to be sure.

[Stan]

B.T.W can you wash that tar like dirt off the bowl or is it in the glaze, I washed mine with dish soap and it all came off and whitened up.

[Stan]

On mine it was put on to make look older.

[kardinalisimo]

Not everything is outlined in black and the contours are not bold. But the rim decoration looks a bit different. The foot rim cannot be washed because there is a glaze covering.

[Stan]

Same on nine, not everything but most of everything. I bought mine about 20 years ago, it was one of the first things I purchased, after finding Peters web site that is when I found out that the yellowish tar like substance that was on mine was added to make it look old, now it is just a conversation piece.

[peterp]

There are too few detail pictures for such a large item. The enlargements showing people's faces and rim decoration seems to be right for a late Qing decoration. Please pay attention to the faces, later ones usually paint them differently. The only recent one I know was probably overpainted completely in the old style, possibly to hide some repairs. But they used newer colors, which are brighter.
Stan, you should know how the 20th century faces, eyes and hairdo look. If you have any that you are not sure of, do not hesitate to show me ...

The big question is the overall yellowish brown look. A vitreous glaze does not turn this color. There are two possibilites: (1) dirty, (2) a transparent layer of something else was added, like lacquer, or something else.
First try to see if the top layer is pliable. Prick it with a needle. With a vitreous layer the needle should not go in. Heat the needle, if necessary. If it is some chemical compound it should be possible to cause a little hole. If the needle does not go in, the vitreous layer may just be dirty.
In that case, inspect first to see if there are any well hidden repairs. If there is none, try to clean the basin with some dish washing liquid or detergent solution. Maybe you have to repeat this a few times, if the color gets removed slightly.
If all this does not help, tell us.

Basically, if it is not dirty, then someone could have overpainted it with some protective chemical lacquer or similar, which then yellowed. The brown color could also indicate heating, but not sure.

>>>Just be careful, overpainted repairs may be difficult to detect, so first try in an inconspicuous place.

[Stan]

Hi Peter, this is the bowl that was covered in a yellowish tar color, it all came off when I washed it, I bought this about 20 years ago. This bowl I believe is a newer bowl.

[peterp]

Yes Stan, yours is newer. A typical 20th century item.

[kardinalisimo]

Good to see your bowl. I think mine is different. The colors are not that bright and shiny and the paintings look to more freely done. If you notice, on yours, the clothing on the people are all outlined. On this one, only some parts are.
I don't think I've seen before that key pattern interrupted by hearts and that other shape.
Peter, the porcelain appears to be very whitish as shown on the picture with the chip on the varnish. Would you recommend to try to get the lacquer off? Or leave it the way it is.
So, do you think it is late Qing for sure?
Thanks