Guangxu pieces??

bishler · Mar 14, 2018, 06:33:15

The attached pieces were found in storage... they are: 4 wine warmers, 16 food warmers (4 stacks of 4) and an assortment of small pieces. They have the "original" stickers from 1875 (Guangxu period), but I am interested in the opinion of the forum here... authenticity as best assessed, more proper terminology to refer to each type of piece, and any references for researching value. I can not tell if these are simply "cheap" export pieces, or if they do have value and should be treated as such.
Any input is very much appreciated.
Best,
Brett

peterp · Mar 14, 2018, 10:33:54

This is not export porcelain. All look like Guangxu wares, even the one with a Tongzhi mark. This is based on the look of the decoration only, of course. As to the collecting value, I would consider the lidded jars in the two top pictures of more interest. The decorations on the others are really too common and appear on many items of that period.

bishler · Mar 14, 2018, 21:45:03

Thank you, Peter. I agree... the especially nice pieces are the lidded jars with the smaller cup inside... (I wish I knew the proper terminology for this piece!). I spoke with the Chinese gentleman from CA who sells a similar piece on eBay, but he called them "tea caddies," yet I believe they are some sort of wine warmer, and if true, definitely makes for a unique piece. They are really gorgeous, especially the black ones with calligraphy. As to value, I guess it ends up being what someone is willing to pay, given I can't find nothing on this type piece. anywhere.

Unrelated, I uncovered the attached last night... this 14 pc. plate set appears Japanese, and still has the Sotheby's tag on them. And if I am right that they are Japanese, I need to take them to another forum to discuss. Does anyone know of a good Japanese ceramic forum like this one?

But I just don't know on these... they may actually be from Guangxu period given markings on the reverse. But the art does not have me convinced. I'd love to hear opinions.

bishler · Mar 15, 2018, 04:50:58

I'd really like to discuss this pieces, especially the plates, if anyone is interested...

ssbill · Mar 15, 2018, 10:06:01

There's a japanese section on this forum with a few members knowledgeable about Japanese porcelain who may be able to help you.
Yes it looks japanese. If they were really sold a sothebys they could be valuable as Sothebys won't sell anything worth less than $5000 but I'd always be very careful about such tag. It could easily be forged to give the impression it is a valuable piece.

peterp · Mar 15, 2018, 10:29:06

These are 18th century plates. A side view taken at an angle to check the foot rim shape might help. These are underglaze blue and underglaze red decorations, most commonly found with unglazed (sand) bottoms. From the two with close pictures of the decoration it seems that they were made at Dehua kiln in Fujian province.

ssbill · Mar 15, 2018, 10:30:46

Ok thanks Peter, I was wrong about them being japanese

bishler · Mar 15, 2018, 10:40:18

Thank you both.

This is fascinating to me that you can narrow this down to a kiln.

Is it the style, the colors and/or the characters that zero-in your opinion so carefully?

So, you are thinking more likely Qianlong period of Ming dynasty?

peterp · Mar 15, 2018, 13:12:42

Qianlong is Qing dynasty, not Ming. Such items are often thought to be Yongzheng to about Qianlong. You have to learn, and accumulate experience, to be able to recognize features that are usable for identification.

bishler · Mar 15, 2018, 23:36:50

Yes, I know it is Qing, not Ming. That was a typo. In fact, I'll attach a pic of a page from Miller's 2018 Antiques book I use as reference for period names and dates.

Yes, I am here to learn, thus all the questions.

Peter, per your inquiry, I've attached a shot of the bottom of the plate. Note the unique characters.

What are you seeing in these pics of the plates that points you to a particular kiln?

Here's the big question for any knowledgeable readers... in attempting to determine if these are from the Yongzheng or Qianlong period... I'll attach a pic of the bottom of a plate with a particular character highlighted. I'll also attach a cut form the page from Miller's book highlighting the same character. Would one be correct in assuming these are from the Qianlng period based upon what you are seeing?

Thank you again in advance for any comments / input.

peterp · Mar 16, 2018, 07:57:09

Resemblance of decoration elements with certain characters does not necessarily mean these are really characters. The decoration is just something simplified, never saw the character used in a decoration.
Further, with some items we just can not know if a specific item is from a certain period, as some decorations were made over extended periods of time. And there is no sharp limit to production according to reign. That is, decoration styles etc. did not abruptly end or change with a new reign.
With export porcelain dating may be a different matter, because ship logs and records of the VOC did register which items were transported at what time.

bishler · Mar 16, 2018, 21:25:42

Attached is a relatively interesting overview of Qing porcelain.

bishler · Mar 17, 2018, 22:23:43

Now I've read through a lot of threads on here, and it mainly (80%+) appears to be people asking questions, and all answered by Peter. Not much other dialogue.
1) Thank you Peter for allowing people like me to tax you with sometimes stupid questions. I can only imagine all the emails you get and the patience it takes to deal with people who want something for free.
2) That said, do you or any one else know of a forum where there is a bit more active discussions with more than just one poster? No offense, but not only do I not want one person to be so taxed with all these questions, but I'd like to have a discussion with a group of people also interested in learning about Chinese porcelain. A bit more variety, if you will.
Thank in advance for any recommendations.
And thank you again Peter, you seem like a true, giving person.

heavenguy · Mar 17, 2018, 22:34:25

Good luck with that mate...

bishler · Mar 19, 2018, 04:25:07

Keep working at it and you can answer the questions yourself...

I found the plates at an upcoming auction. Assuming this auction house got it right, they are 20th cent, and est. to go out at ~$125ea. (includes premium). SEE ATTACHED
So much for debating the period or value.

I still can't answer why they have Sotheby's tags on them...

Oh well.
Now I am done with this thread. Thanks for all the replies!