Red & Black Vase

[kardinalisimo]

The glaze is crackled. I am thinking a Japanese piece with spurious Qianlong mark but just to double check. Any idea what is the calligraphy about?
Thanks

[Stan]

This is Chinese and not Japanese. and not very old, sorry but it has a modern bottom and the colors are much to bright to be old.

[kardinalisimo]

Thanks, Stan.
What do you call this style of decoration and when it was first introduced?
Can you give me any hints on modern vs old bottom?
I don't think it is very old either, if old at all. Whatever is supposed to be a red seal looks ridiculously childish.

[Stan]

Hi Kardinalisimo, the decoration looks like someone was trying to copy an early republic decoration, I do not think that the shape is traditional, and the bottom foot on the inside should be strait up and down not rounded.

[kardinalisimo]

Hi Stan.
The shape actually is more regular but the photo I took makes it look not quite right.
That is something new I learnt about the bases. I know Peter always talk about the foot rims of the Early Qing plates but I did not know there was a rule about the vessels bottoms.
Copy Early Republic you say. But is there a name for this combination of red and black paints? Like, Famille Something?

[Stan]

I don't think you can call this a famille rose, the colors are to bright, and as far as I know Qing period and early republic  the foot inside were strait. but for the decoration I have seen lots of early republic decorations that resemble yours.

[peterp]

This is in the shape of a Japanese Tokuri, a bottle in which Sake is served.
Crackles are artificial, the mark looks like a printing font, the written characters are usually in another style on regular Chinese antiques. All in all probably a new Chinese item, perhaps intended for Japan, but not sure. The quality of the painted decoration and writing seems inferior.

[kardinalisimo]

Peter, can you confirm the foot rim structure? Any general rules for the different periods?

[Stan]

I was thinking the same thing Peter, a new item made in China.

[peterp]

Don't try to find a right point to prove its age or authenticity. A single factor that is wrong can debunk all other factors - as incorrect. In this example each of the points mentioned is not correct-never mind the foot.

[Stan]

Hi Peter, just to keep me inline, are the foot rims strait up and down in the inside of the bottoms on Qing and early republic vases, I usually get it trouble when I make conclusion based on the items I own.

[peterp]

Stan, vases are different from plates, bowls or cups, any time during the Qing dynasty. Straight up rim means for plates, etc., not necessarily vases; and these rims developed after the 18th century. I don't think there is much compare with. Vase foot rims of the early Qing dynasty frequently appear also on late Qing vases.
Talking about republic is always a bit of a problem, because of the definition. Personally, to me the "early" republic and its traditional styles goes until about 1930.

If you have a vase with a foot rim that is clearly oblique on the inside, however, to me this is usually a sign that it is after the "early" republic, although there may be the occasional exception.  The limit is never clear-cut between the items of an earlier period and a later one. Changes happened gradually, some earlier some later. Exceptions are only those changes that did not come naturally, like those ordered by the court, in earlier times. A rim shaped like the one of the current item could cover a long time, so you cannot rely on this alone.

[Stan]

Thanks Peter for answering my questions.