Very Large Satsuma Vase

[bokaba]

19 inch satsuma vase. It appears to be unmarked, but has some sort of stamp seal I've never seen before. Is it some sort of export stamp? Any thoughts on the age or maker?

[bokaba]

Backside

[bokaba]

Bottom and top

[peterp]

Funny, the apparel is neither clearly Japanese nor Chinese. Looks more like something in between.

[bokaba]

Stan or Heavenguy, do you have any info on this mark?

[heavenguy]

I don't recognize the mark. Marks were hand painted not stamped. Only Satsuma marks that were stamped are from around the 50's by the Koshida Company. The only kanji character I know from there its "tsukuru " that means made by the rest I ignore. Heavy gold gilded Satsuma is not good for collecting since it represents the fall of Satsuma market. They were trying so hard to appeal to the western market that over saturated the gold gilt, and mass produced the vases. But to tell you the truth, in my personal view this looks like some type of modern Chinese Version of Satsuma or a cheap tourist souvenir Satsuma ware.

[Stan]

Traditional Japanese pottery writing always starts on the left down and then to the right downward, not side ways left to right, I have never seen Japanese written like this however the Chinese do, and the white ground looks much to white for any satsuma or satsuma style, I think this is a fake, not Chinese or Japanese or maybe a chinoiserie in Japanese style, is there such a thing?

[Mat]

I would go with Chinese, just a bit closer to the style of Japanese Satsuma than the usual imitations...

[Stan]

One thing I can say is that I am seeing a lot of pieces like this on the market in all shapes and sizes with the same decoration, it see them in antique shops and on the internet.

[peterp]

This is concerning the mark only.
Chinese antique marks are written right to left only when the whole thing is on a single line.
Here we have two lines. This would normally be written top down, right to left.
Present day marks often use left to right, top line then lower line.

This mark is odd in that it is written right to left, that is top line, then lower line. This direction is not normal in either Japanese or Chinese classic wares. Further, the characters are rather sloppy, like handwriting that was written either by a non-professional or by different persons. It should be expected that seals and stamps are written in a better manner, here especially so, because the vase decoration is in marked contrast, with its excellent detailed painting.

I wonder if the mark could have been added later? It is just difficult to imagine that someone made such a decoration and then stamped a sloppy seal on the bottom.

1st line  Satsuma-yaki
2nd line  ?? (?= made). The right character in the name looks as if it had an extraneous stroke.
The  impression one gets is that the writer was really not good at writing Kanji characters. Usually, those who write stamps/seals are good at it.

I would recommend to do a scratch test, to find out if the mark was fired at all. Maybe it is not original. Or, check with a magnifier if the "ink" did seep into the crackles.

[bokaba]

The second line may be the Japanese surname Nagakatsu. I was able to find one reference to a Nagakatsu tsukuru Satsuma incense burner made around 1900. No image of the mark though.

collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O493632/incense-burner-and-unknown/

[peterp]

Yes, that is definitely the reading of the characters. I do not know, however, if that is the only one. Many personal names are read differently even if with the same characters.
You could try searching for ??? on the Japanese Internet to find an image of his mark. If you combine that with ? (porcelain) it may be easier.

[Stan]

Thanks Peter, for explaining the mark and how it should be written, for me, being dyslexic is a real problem, I am always getting confused from right to left and so on.

[bokaba]

This is the only other reference to ??? I was able to find. It is from an eBay discussion and doesn't answer the question, but shows the picture of plate with the same stamp as this vase. Since this plate is not a satsuma ware, I am fairly certain it must be some kind of stamp applied after the piece was made. Assuming the mark was applied after, could this vase be Japanese or from the early 20th Century?

community.ebay.com/t5/Pottery-Glass-Porcelain/Help-with-plate-markings/td-p/25435075

[Stan]

The plate looks Austrian, maybe I was right Chinoiserie.