Late Qing Plaque ?

[calder]

Hello all,
I have this iron red and grisalle decorated plaque/tile.
I believe the  translation reads ?pray in the early hours of the morning for help? ?ten obedient men will be on hand to carry your burden"
Im wondering if anyone knows the artist?

[calder]

More pics.

[calder]

Even more.

[peterp]

Please provide image of backside, and size.

[calder]

Hello Peter,
It is mounted on a table.
cant access it to show you.

[calder]

Peter,
It is 15"x10".
Hope the pictures help.
You can see the ripple effect on the porcelain in the picures.

[peterp]

May I ask who told you that meaning of the Chinese?  I can see nothing of that.

The painting style of the faces is probably post-Qing dynasty, but impossible to be sure. However, there is a cyclical year given which conforms either to 1949 or 60 years earlier or later. I doubt that such faces are possible before the early 20th century, so 1949 is more likely.
The text tells the cyclical year, then what seems to be the period or time of the year (as usual), but there the characters that are not so clear, then it say written by the "old man Li Gu-dong". The name Li does not appear in the seal mark. Gu-dong could be an artist's name, as its meaning is "antique". Never heard that name be used in a real name, but is not completely impossible. The characters between the period and 'old man...' are partially difficult to read, but I have doubts about a translation as mentioned.

[calder]

Peter as always thank you for your time and knowledge.
The translation was written under the table.
Ha ha don't believe everything you read.
I found this site with your guidance.

auction.artron.net/paimai-art5024875007/

Thank you.

[calder]

Hi Peter,
Would the painter be "???" in chinese?
Thank you again.
found another if the same artist.
link below.



auction.artron.net/paimai-art0034321166/

[peterp]

Yes. Can you find something about him, instead about his works only? The facial expressions are not common at all for qianjiang porcelain of that period, because it would mean 1889, while such faces are hardly found before the early 20th century. But if you can find something about his activity period I will have to revise the period for such faces.
I have found that name on the Chinese internet, but it seemed to be pointing to an antique business only.
The painting is 'qianjiang' style, but I cannot find him listed among qianjiang painters, while the faces are unusual for qianjiang of the late 19th century.
The reason why it is sometimes necessary to find information on the painter himself is because many works have been copied by apprentices or other painters at a later time.

[calder]

Hi Peter,
Not much out there on him.
wether the information is correct I dont know.

[copied text removed by admin]
[Kindly next time place a link instead of copying content directly into the forum. Google, etc. spider the forum daily and we may get into problem when the copied content is found via search engines.]

[peterp]

Hi calder,
I will search again if I can find him with your information. My Chinese "inhouse" also thinks with that name it may be not his real name. Anyway, if he was in the imperial kiln working it should be possible to find information. BTW, my qianjiang items of that period all do not have such faces, but I will be glad if I can find some more information. The size of the plaque is possible for late Qing.

[peterp]

After trying  again to find some information on Li Gu-dong on the Chinese internet all information lead back to the pages and two objects you posted (on artron, an auction aggregator), but still no other tangible information on him except theirs. Still, he may be real and of the Guangxu period, but I had another good look at other contemporary qianjiang painters' works of people and compared them to yours.
Originally I thought I was perhaps wrong with the later dating...well I probably was. But I do not think I need to revise my facial feature dating forward. A careful comparison with your images resulted in the impression that the porcelain painting in your pictures was re-worked. That is, the writing may be original, but part of the painting is probably repainted or over-painted by someone else.

My reasoning is as follows:
1. The tree and part of the other black is too dark for a 1880s or 90s qianjiang painting. The color black of that period would normally be expected to be about the same color as the writing now is. Qianjiang paintings of that period were mostly restricted to relatively light colors, that means black was mostly only gray from the very beginning when they were new. That was due to the consistency of the painting colors of that period.
2. The folds and other lines in the clothing show an unnatural, hesitating brush flow, as if someone tried to follow faint lines, or painted into a pre-existing picture. Does not look like it was painted by a professional who painted in his own style day for day.
3. The deer's antlers and "face" and the peach also look as if they have been repainted (not sure about the rest of the orange-brown color, though).

Thus, I now think the painting is likely 1889, but I'm afraid it may not in its original state. Many qianjiang pictures of that period look faint. The likelihood that this was reworked in one way or another to lift its perceived value is considerable.  If you consider buying this, my advice would be...don't.

[calder]

Wow... thank you Peter for your in depth analysis.
I am very gratefull for your time and effort.

The plaque is all ready sitting in my livingroom.

I found one more link  from someones blog.

blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_43a554c70102viok.html

Thank you again.

[calder]

Another link.

blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_5c767e9a0101gjx9.html