Porcelain Chinese dish ??

Started by abderrahim, Jul 04, 2025, 22:56:58

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abderrahim

Please  it's a original chinese porcelain.??? the periode please?? Thank you.

peterp

This looks like a variation of the willow tree pattern, but probably not for export. Quality looks more like BW wares made in Canton but the pigment itself appears like Dehua blue/white ware. Judging by the base it is probably about mid-Qing dynasty.

Hmm

You can try looking at the Mount Vernon estate museum, which was George Washington's estate.

emuseum.mountvernon.org/objects/images?filter=geography%3AChina#filters

You can see the 1830s-1870s canton plates looking similar.  China was going through a bit of upheaval during that time, especially around that porcelain making areas, with the Opium wars, Taiping Rebellion, etc, and the quality degraded tremendously for these types of plates. 

peterp

Thanks for contributing, Hmm!
I would like to explain why I'm not quite sure about the dating.

The willow pattern is mainly an export decoration. It was made both in Canton and Jingdezhen (JDZ). The BW plates made at Canton gave me always the impression that they were of inferior quality (the painting) compared to similar ones made at JDZ. But, I don't think I have seen any painted in such a helter-skelter manner as this dish, not even those made at Canton. My knowledge of Canton BW ware is lacking, though. Were there any such decorations? I would find it acceptable if it were for the common people, rather than for export, but have no knowledge of  Canton wares of this quality.
What I find more relevant is shape and production quality. Blanks used at Canton were fired in JDZ and then transported to Canton, where they were painted and fired again.
Now, with this item the foot rim seems to have a slanted outer face and a straight inner face. In Jingdezhen production of such changed after the Qianlong reign and the foot rim became straight, inside and outside.
It appears that due to stored blanks remaining at Canton plates with this foot rim shape continued to be used there until at least the Jiaqing reign, perhaps even the early Daoguang reign. But I have doubts about 1870, that would already be late Qing dynasty and according to what heard there are not ceramics with such a foot rim from that late a time in the 19th century.
The inferior glaze of the underside is also notable, are there other Canton export wares like this? Most of those I've seen were of better quality.

(Explanation of what we here call mid-Qing dynasty. Early on I thought late Qing would be late 18th century, but here in Taiwan the assumed separation although not rigid, was a definition separating the Qing dynasty in about three similar lengths of time 80~90 years. Thus 'mid-Qing' was assumed to be 'Qianlong~Jiaqing', sometimes including the Daoguang reign.)

Due to the above reasons I think it might be from the late mid-Qing period, based on the foot rim shape, and lower glaze quality and decoration. I wonder if such decorations could have been made by kilns with substandard production quality, other than the original ones made at Canton itself?