Imari/famille rose pot - clobbered Qianlong?

[JjGhandi]

Hi everyone,


I have this pot with cover.
A mix of famille rose and imari mixed with thin and thick enamels.

I think this is a clobbered Qianlong piece.
However, it's not your typical Amsterdams Bont piece.

I was thinking it could be a full Chinese decoration as well.
I've seen this mix before on plates dated 1740.

However, the white enamel sets me off.
Did the Chinese use white enamels like this?

Any thoughts?
Thanks!


Kind regards,

JJ

[peterp]

A bottom and interior view might assist evaluation.
Personally I think it could be Japanese Imari. It is not only the painting style, but the shape is not exactly a traditional Chinese shape, and my impression is that ball shaped lid knobs were made only in the 20th century in China.

[JjGhandi]

Hi Peter,


Didn't think of that, good riddance.
Hetewith bottom & interior.

Kr,

JJ

[JjGhandi]

Herewith the inside of the lid too

[JjGhandi]

I can't find any japanese wares with the same color.
Could it be European?
The blue decoration high on the pot seems to be grapes and grapeleaves.
I don't know of that was a known decoration for the Chinese/Japanese.
Perhaps solely on export wares?

But the top rim and inside of the lid is not glazed, which means it's been glazed and fired in one piece, no?
I don't know if European potters did this. Mostly the inside rims were glazed too, I believe.

Thanks for the help

JJ

[JjGhandi]

Hi Peter,

I've found a Qianlong pot with a similar knob in a book (Choice of the Private Trader, D.S. Howard, P170).
Is it possible that the Chinese did make this kind of knob after the European taste?

Kr,

JJ

[JjGhandi]

Forgot the pics of it:

[Stan]

Hi JJ, the reason the lid dose not fit right, it is because it is missing the insert or sleeve, Im not sure what it would be used for, but the lid would have sat on the insert and the insert would have been hidden, not seen, I can't say for certain it this is Japanese, or Chinese, I think it might have been used for keeping sauces warm or some kind of a warmer, sometimes you need to wait and see if something else comes up like it, I had something similar once but it was 100% Chinese, lets see if someone else can recognize it.
BTW, I did find several japanese lids with the round ball handle, dating to the Mid to late Meiji.

[JjGhandi]

Hi Stan,

Thanks a lot for explaining that!
I first thought the lid was not right but the decorations were so alike I thought it was wrongly made.
But not the case, wondering what kind of sleeve it could be.

When searching, Sugar Bowl is the closest to what I can find to this.
Japanese could be right but I believe the shape is the same as Chinese pieces I can find.


Kind regards,

JJ

[peterp]

Sure it is possible that it was made on request for export, but it is unlikely. I won't say it is impossible. The shape of Chinese items with lid  have more likely slightly rounded walls, that is the are curved upwards. Here the walls of the vessel are almost straight and vertical, something that is not impossible but more unlikely/rare with Chinese vessels. The shapes of Chinese, Korean, Japanese items are often slightly different. Shape and base are the most important ones, then comes the glaze and colors, and only after these the decoration. The decoration is the least important because it is the easiest to imitate.

[Stan]

Hi JJ, the shape of the insert or sleeve would be the same shape as the inside it would fit snug on top where the unglazed area is on the top inside, and their would be space on the bottom for hot water to keep the sauce warm, Now I am guessing that is what it is used for but I am not 100% sure about the sauce but it would be use for warming something.

[JjGhandi]

Hi Peter, Stan,


Very interesting, thanks!
I'll do some more research to see if anything pops up :)

Thanks again.

JJ