Large fish charger - Hongwu-Yongle?

[JjGhandi]

Hello everyone,


I came accross this large charger (38cm).
It has a typical Yuan center decoration of a carp in water plants.

However, the other decorations I've never seen before on such plate.
The wavy decoration on the rim I did see before but the others not.
Also, the bottom is glazed and of different shape.
The fish is also not that exquisitly painted as Yuan ones.

I've read that these large fish plates were continued to be made until the Yongle reign.

Would this be one of this later period? Or is it all wrong?

Thanks in advance!

Kind regards,

JJ

[JjGhandi]

More pics

[JjGhandi]

More pictures

[JjGhandi]

Last one

[peterp]

I'm afraid this is either a fake or 20th century item used by the present people, a few decades ago.
Any vintage Chinese item could have this look, not to speak of the blue pigment not belonging to the period you mentioned. Take it easy, good items are not that many these days....:)

[JjGhandi]

Hey Peter,

Are you referring to my post about the charger?

I guess you're right...
I'm running beside my shoes I suppose :)
Big thank you!

Back to work!


Kind regards,

JJ

[peterp]

Yes, I posted in the wrong topic. My apology.

[peterp]

After looking in detail at the decoration once more I have come to think that this is perhaps not Chinese at all. It may only be using a Chinese central motif and rim decoration.
The painting style of the fish and the whole star-shaped decoration do not look Chinese. There is a possibility that this was made in Indonesia or elsewhere in SE Asia.
Color and glaze are also more pointing in that direction. My personal opinion.

[JjGhandi]

Hey Peter,


A keen eye!
It is bought in Indonesia so a high probability I suppose.


Kr,

JJ

[peterp]

Well, did they say it is Chinese? If yes they are knowingly selling fakes. I have seen before items that were seemingly from there, in this and another forum. I got the impression that they were testing if their items were recognized as being not from China.

[JjGhandi]

They were sold here in Belgium by a man who frequently visists Indonesia and got tricked on one of his journeys.
He knew he was selling a fake though. When I said he probably had a fake he instantly wanted to half the amount he asked for it.
It's really sad trying to recover your financial losses by reselling your fakes to other people.

Since I don't really have a high budget I'm often found at the lower end of the Chinese antiques which is the fakes/late 20th century playground.
Once in a while I'm able to score some good pieces.
Like the bowls. I bought a lot of 5: 1 thai(?), 1 was a Japanese printed, 1 was the Hongwu piece and the 2 Song shipwrecks.
Because the printed Japanese one was mainly in display no one paid attention and I was able to score the lot for €70.
For 3 authentic bowls it was a good bargin.

I'm tryig to work my way into the cheaper pieces on the reputable auction houses.
For 100-200 you'll find nice pieces too, although they're almost always 18th century export ware of lesser quality.

But I'm as enthousiastic as ever, every knowledge gained is a plus.
Who knows in 20-30 years they'll buy a book copy of my collection and use it as a reference. That would be a dream.

Kind regards,

JJ

[peterp]

Maybe you should try some export porcelain, for the experience. Better quality and good condition, mostly. Some was never used. Should be easy to get good pieces in your place.