Bowl / plate?

Started by peterp, Mar 31, 2020, 21:44:23

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This is another collector's item and I'm trying to help him decide what this is.
If I would encounter this I would pass it over due to the questionable shape and decoration features.
In other words, I'm not even sure if this is Chinese or Japanese. I'm leaning toward the latter, but the decoration colors and style of the top decoration are more typical for the Qing dynasty, Kangxi or Kangxi revival (Guangxu) period.

What is wrong or atypical...
(1) The shape when viewed from the side is not a typical Chinese shape, neither is it clearly a bowl or a plate.
(2) The leaf-shaped windows of the top rim decoration are unusual, as are the shrimps/prawns inside these. These rarely appear on Chinese wares.
(3) Overall, to me the decoration layout looks more Japanese, respectively like a variation of an Arita style decoration layout.
(4) The underside decoration does not look traditional Chinese either.
(5) Chrysanthemums do exist in Shunzhi and perhaps some Kangxi decorations, but are more common on Japanese porcelain.

Has anyone seen such a decoration before? Is it Japanese or Chinese?

(Sorry, but at this time I don't have larger images available.)


Hi Peter, aren't these colors considered a famille verty I see them more now than ever which makes me suspicious, I bought a vase at an action with this color combination it looks more traditional but the porcelain is so pristine it could be a new reproduction like a lot of these bowls and plates that are coming from Chinese with not age signs, I can't really tell from these pictures if they are chips or glaze defects from the firing, I do not think it is Japanese I can't remember ever seeing these colors in this style in Japanese I could be wrong about that though.


Thanks Stan, I wanted to hear your opinion about the possibility that these colors could appear on Japanese porcelain. If not, then it is likely newer Chinese. Those colors are about the only ones that look right to me, for Chinese. Nothing else looks like traditional workmanship.
In these pictures the white glaze looks yellowish, which could point to an older item, but I will see the actual item later this week. Online there is an item with a similar decoration and shape, but with a pure white glaze. It looks too pristine.
Indeed, I see so many items with Kangxi style decorations nowadays, that it is reasonable to believe that they were made more recently.


Hi Stan,
Yesterday I was able to inspect the actual item. The style and decoration questions remain, but I found two basic problems that pointed to a repainted item.
The glaze and fish in the center are very clearly old, but the background of the four windows was odd. Normally the windows are just left as is, the same color as the glaze. In this case the glaze had a yellowish hue. But with this item three of the windows had a background that was snow white. However, the painter had missed to paint the background of one the same white color, leaving it yellowish as the glaze. That probably means that the decoration was repainted, except the fish in the center.
The other problem point discovered was that the foot rim was covered. There were no signs of unglazed stilt or support surfaces that have to be present during firing. The foot rim was originally not glazed, but now it was covered in a transparent glaze-like material. I suspect that it might be lacquer or some other artificial glaze that did not need firing. It must have been added after the last firing.
So the whole item is just not original.