Ming WanLin Charger Plate

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Hi guys!

Need your take on this! This looks to be buried or from a shipwreck. WHat do you think of this piece?

When was this made? Where?

Dimensions: 12-1/2? Diameter. 2-3/8? High.

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[peterp]

A red-green plate or charger. With the Daming Nianzao mark it is more likely Ming dynasty Jiajing than Wanli, a little earlier.
Could be bleaching from the sea.

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Thanks peterp!

With the DaMing Nianzao, does that mean its imperial? Or just simply a when it was made?

[peterp]

Having a mark never means that something is imperial. Both private and official kilns used marks.

[smak]

Thanks peterp! One last question, despite being in shipwreck salvage, does it make it less desirable?

[peterp]

Are hinting to collecting value or monetary value? It probably will, but it is not everyday that one sees one like this outside a museum, but monetary value will be affected.

[Stan]

I have some bowls from the Hoi-an-hoard ship wreck that have the same colors, I was at an auction around 20 years ago in Northern California and they were auctioning a bunch of items that looked just like this charger plate, I remember that the bigger items sold then  for over a thousand plus, I purchased some smaller blue and white plates, the bowls I have are same colors, red and green, when I first saw your Charger I thought Hoi-an-hoard, it could have lost its sticker, everything they sold had a hoi-an-hoard sticker mine are constantly falling off, if you see one similar that is more than likely where it came from, I see the ones I have for sale all the time, there were literally thousands of them, the ship wreck was discovered of the coast of Vietnam

[peterp]

Stan, how was the bottom? And, any marks?
Many Vietnamese items of that period resemble Ming items because many kiln workers emigrated there, it seems.

[Stan]

Hi Peter, I believe the Hoi-an-hoard was the largest ship wreck hoard ever discovered, not all of the cargo came from Vietnam, some of the larger pieces were amazing, I wish I would have purchased them, also I would like to point out that the large cargo has brought down prices on existing items because of the amount of the cargo literally hundreds of thousands of pieces, these are small pieces showing the foot and decoration.

[peterp]

Thanks Stan. I was wondering about whether there would have been no Chinese porcelain aboard. Most shipwrecks in the South China Sea seem to have contained a mix of different origin. The items in your pictures show typical Vietnamese bottoms. And the outside shows Yuan style lotus petals, typical for the period concurrent with the Ming dynasty.

However, I doubt the Vietnamese would have used a Ming mark because they had freed themselves from Chinese rule centuries earlier, and a try at re-establishing Chinese rule over Vietnam failed in the Ming dynasty, meaning they likely wouldn't have been on friendly terms, perhaps.
This is one reason that makes it more likely that the plate in question is Chinese because of the mark. My personal reasoning ... :-)