ID vases

[Rec]

I only have these three photos and still I hope that one of you can help to identify these vases.

[peterp]

Vases with a late Ming style green-red decoration. Probably made in Japan. Not sure about the mark but the second character is ?, a frequent occurrence in Japanese people's and location names.

[Stan]

I wonder if these could be Vietnamese?

[peterp]

Stan, do you have a specific reason to think of this possibility? This kind of decoration was one of the earliest exported to Japan. Even today new items with this type of red-blue are still being made and apparently popular in Japan. As to the mark, I doubt that Vietnamese potters would have marked items this way, but am open to learn otherwise.

[Stan]

I have some bowls that came from the HOI AN Hoard ship wreck that have very similar decoration, that was a vietnamese cargo ship just putting the two together, might be a stretch.

[Rec]

thank you very much both of you. very interesting.
did Vietnamese marked their pottery this way?

[Stan]

I don't think so but it looks like the black writing is on top of the glaze, could have been applied at a later time.

[Rec]

I will post new photos here if I get the package. I thought they might be from South Chinese Swatow.

[peterp]

Swatow was a wrong location. Those items are now called Zhangzhou wares, from two or more kilns in the Zhangzhou vicinity. Yes, the decoration would be on those wares, but the vase shape is doubtful. Looking forward to your details.

[Rec]

I got the package and here are the pics. The vases are smaller than i thought, they are only 14 cm high, 5 cm diameter at the bottom and 2x 4,5 and 1x,5 cm diameter at the top.
The backmark isn't put on the top of the glaze but under the glaze, i think.. and the glaze looks to me a bit brighter than the pics i saw on the sellers website.
I don't know how to describe the surface, there are too much air gaps/holes on the surface like air bubbles you can find on the antique porous persian wares. I'm not sure whether I should  categorize these under porcelain or stoneware. And I have mine question about the age.

[Stan]

My personal opinion is these are new, the shiny glaze the pin holes are to uniform and the colors are to bright to be antique.

[peterp]

One of the marks is written differently. This is odd. But I agree that this is new. Old red green decorations are virtually always abraded to some degree, because the decoration is painted on the glaze. If they are not, they are new...
If you want antique ones, they must be from the Ming dynasty. They were discontinued afterwards in China, but Japan appears to still make them today.

[Rec]

I agree, these are new.
Thanks again.

[peterp]

Rec, is the Prinzessehof Museum far from your place? I guess they must have a huge collection of authentic red-green porcelain from the Zhangzhou kilns.

[Rec]

Not so far, no.. I might be able to visit this museum next month