Started by Kenny Kumala, Sep 29, 2018, 09:04:09

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Kenny Kumala

Hi, Peter

I bought this shipwreck dish from a man who live in one of our outer Island in West Borneo, do you've an idea what kind of dish is it? or what ship it was?



Whatever it is, it is not Chinese. I have never seen such a crudely made plate. The base shows a spiral, which would not exist with a Chinese item.
I doubt that it is a shipwreck item at all. The few mollusks might have been stuck on it, a frequently used age faking method.

Kenny Kumala

Hi Peter, that the dish is not a chinese, I'm agree with you, but I collected antique since 25 years,  and never heard that they have age faking method/technique (for shipwreck) in our region, and it make no sense, because 10 years ago, I bought a small Song Jarlet only for $5 (five dollar), and our outer Islands was very busy - stop over places for Chinese traders (they need fresh water, food etc.) even in 1407 Cheng Ho with his about 120 Junks ship, was stopover about 15 km from where I live. Even today there still Chinese antique items we can find in those Island. Now day, there are few Chinese Antique traders/shop in Kuching (east Malaysia) came for antique, after we have a directly way/borders from here to Kuching. so the price growth rapidly. 


Places where shipwrecks are known or were lifted are also often known for selling fake wreck items. I cannot tell for sure if this one is if it is not Chinese, but it is if it it should be Chinese. We also see fake shipwreck items from Vietnam, etc.
Shipwreck items are faked by lowering items in nets into the sea for a time, until there is marine growth, and then they have a so-called wreck item. Another method used is that of gluing many molluscs on a fake item. You should be able to check that. I have never seen such an item among SE Asian items either, I must say. The decoration looks odd.

Kenny Kumala

Hi Peter,

Thanks, for the explanation, do you know how long they need to faked by lowering items in nets into the sea for a time, until there is marine growth, as you wrote?


It depends on the type of marine growth and location. I have heard at times they lower nets with fake items in the port into the water. For example. I have seen an item with a type of tiny clam that grows on the harbor walls here. It could have been quite a short time in the water. Normally, shipwrecks are in greater depths, not just a few meters.
Shipwreck items from some Qing dynasty often show little growth, but those from the Ming dynasty or earlier have growth, or they were bleached, or the glaze is badly abraded, etc.

You cannot conclude from the molluscs to the time the were in the water. If the molluscs are genuine, you could use acetone to see if they come off. Acetone softens many glues.