Arita-Ken-Qianlong ?

[konniela]

Hello,

randomly I saw this mark yesterday while searching something else. I remembered, that I had seen it on a plate, so now I recovered it.

This mark was used in Japan while Chinese Qianlong Period (1736-1795).

The plate has many age signs and seems to be not in best condition. I couldn`t find another piece to compare them, so that is all I could find out. 

[Stan]

Hi Konniela, could you post a picture of the bottom foot rim at an angle so I can see the shape of the foot rim, thanks.

[peterp]

Could this be Chinoiserie?  The single mark character seems to be the first character for Qianlong, but it is written in a manner that gives the impression that the person writing it did not know much about proper character strokes. Further, the character is hardly used in modern Japanese, not even in names, but a Japanese writing it should know the proper strokes. Thus it gives the impression as if someone not knowing Chinese or Kanji was copying the strokes improperly.

[konniela]

Hello,

there is no possibility, to get more photos. The seller answered me, by it or not.  He also said, that he will have been with this plate by an auctionhaus and they tould him, that it is old an from Asia (not very much information for my taste) and it can be  rare and valuable.

[peterp]

While the motif is Chinese the decoration style and some decoration parts gives an impression that it is not traditional Chinese, nor is there anything convincingly Japanese.

[Stan]

This indeed is a Japanese mark to honor the Qianlong period, and it would have been made in Arita, I wanted to see the foot rim because it dose not look like a foot rim for late Edo or early Meiji or the decoration as Peter already mentioned, the blue would be correct for 1850 but the shape is not like any other charger that I have seen, I personally believe it is a fake, in 1850 thereabout the shape would irregular because at that time they did not use the high fired porcelain at at that time, note another think against it is there are no rings around the outside and inside of the foot rim which was a standard of practice in the Arita Kilns.

[bokaba]

Stan, wouldn't a Japanese charger likely have spur marks if made in the 19th Century?

[konniela]

When I saw the charger the first time, I thought the same, that bokaba say, no spur marks, so forget it. I only came back to it, because of the unusual mark.
Unfortunately there is no possibility to get more photos.  What bothers me is, that I am not able to find a similar piece or at all a piece with this mark.  Why should somebody use just this mark for a fake ? May be only because to make it looking old. 

[Stan]

Japanese antique porcelain is going back up in value and marks like these are rare, so they are being faked, another thing  to consider is the mark is centered, usually on Japanese porcelain they were off centered because they were not under the same guidelines that the Chinese were, anything worth money will be faked, it just a given.

[konniela]

When this mark is realy so rare, than it make sense to use it for a fake, I did not realize that. Nobody knows, if the seller realy was in an auctionhaus and also nobody knows, what they have tould him. I think, we can let this charger go here now.  Stan is right, it is a fake.

Thank you all

[Stan]

Hi bokaba, I thought I answered about the stilt marks, I must have forgot to post it, I thought about the stilt marks not bing seen, but sometimes the stilt marks are very faint and do not show, with all the things said about this it could very well be Chinoiserie as Peter has mentioned.

[konniela]

This charger leaves me no rest. I will continue to look.
However, it seems to be an unusual piece.  I can zoom the photo from the back a little bit and there are two places, that looks like spur marks. But that alone does not help.

I have to think it over, the price is not so low, that I can say, it does no matter. 

[Stan]

I would not buy it my self, the decoration is not like any japanese decoration I have seen, just look at the trees and the roofs on the houses, they are to Westernized, I mean facia boards at the eves, not on Chinese or Japanese.

[DavidC]

The stance and attitude of the seller says it all for me. "Buy it or not", is the signal to walk away for me. He may not know and likely so, but he might know something and he will forget your name one millisecond after you've parted with the cash. You can be sure of that. Best wishes to all. D