Qianjiang porcelain circular lidded box

[Stan]

Hi everyone, here is a Qianjinang lidded box, the colors are similar to a pastel color very light, the camera makes the colors look brighter than they are, just from studying the decoration I would say early republic, the foot is right and faces look right, I am hoping that there is a date and the name of the artist, thanks for all your help.

[Stan]

Here are more photo's to view.

[Stan]

Here are more photo's to view.

[Hmm]

Not sure.  But I think it says it was made by ??? on it (baike.baidu.com/item/%E9%87%91%E5%93%81%E5%8D%BF).  Would be quite interesting if it was!

The cyclical date may be ??.  1906?  5 years before the 1911 Revolution.  www.artnet.com/artists/jin-pinqing/past-auction-results

[wk]

I used to have a almost identical box that was dated Guangxu reign. Very nice.

[Stan]

Thanks Hmm, for the interpretation, that is amazing, I hope it is 1906 and not 1966, it looks older to me than 1966, the pastel colors, I have had small vases that were authenticated early republic with the same light pastel colors and thank you WK for your kind comment, 1906 would be 2 years before the end of the Guangxu period, Hmm do you think that Jin Pinqing is the artist signature, the decoration looks different from other works shown.

[Stan]

Hi Hmm, the red mark on the left side looks like a hand print, is that right or is it a mark that just happens to look like that?

[bokaba]

Hi Stan,

Your box is similar to the one I posted, but I think yours is probably Republic Period. I like the way the decoration goes across both the jar and the lid so that is has to be line up. Age signs like firing errors, glaze contraction, etc. look good.

Bokaba

[Stan]

Thanks Bokaba, I noticed the lid on mine has a small lip around the top edge, I do not remember seeing that before on other circular lidded jar tops, but you are right, shape, jar and lid look like they were made the same way turned on a potters wheel.

[Hmm]

I'm not sure about the signature.  Since China has many different calligraphy styles, people can write/sign their names in all sorts of way, depending on their "mood", and if they are being artistic or not. 

There's one problem regarding the cyclical date.  Which might mean it's fake?  According to this webpage, no piece has been found later than 1901.  koh-antique.com/qj/qjmark/jpqm.htm 

[bokaba]

Hmm,

I think they only mean for that particular artist, Jin Pin Qin, not that cyclical dates have not been used at all after 1901.

Bokaba

[peterp]

To Stan:  The cyclical date, etc. is of no consequence. Either it was painted by Jin ping-qing personally, or an apprentice of someone else. That was quite usual. It also frequently happened that the master put his seal on items made by apprentices. Why do I mention that?
I cannot help with this, but you should try to find out whether this is the painter's personal work or not.

Jin Ping-qing, 1862-1908, used a considerable number of different signature names. He was painter at the the imperial kiln, and a well-known Qianjiang painter. He is listed at the top level of Qianjiang painters, together with Cheng Men, as one of the earliest painters of this style, of whom some works remain. Favorite subjects were birds and people.

Now the problem I see. This one as well as the other Qianjiang painters working before the end of the 19th century rarely painted prominent outlines like this.
I suggest you try to find out if this could be a work of his later years, and whether the writing style is his own. I know it is not easy to find out. You will have to ask someone with Chinese calligraphy knowledge whether the writing style is the same as one of the known earlier works.

That makes all the difference. If it was someone else's works, then it is just a later copy, perhaps still antique. But if it is original, it might have a higher value, both in view to monetary as well as collectible value.
The real problem is the famous painters' works were often copied by many. Do not get caught up in the motif or decoration itself, many later Qianjiang painters copied the motifs.

Example of Jin's painting (website of Jingdezhen):

Search for more images in Chinese:  "???  ??". I bet you can recognize some of the authentic ones via his style.

[Stan]

Thanks Peter, for your word of encouragement, I bought 3 items of Qianjiang porcelain that were all sold together at a local auction, I wanted them because they appear to have age, as everyone else I am always hoping to score the real genuine items, but I will have to admit we take a beating along the way but what we learn from experience is more than any book, thank you all for your comments and help trying to figure all this out, I promise I will let you all know what I find out, I know that as soon as I heard a famous name that the odds of authenticity goes down because the famous artists are the most copied, thanks again for all your help.