Large Urn type Vase

[MMcG]

Hi Stan and Peter,
I thought I'd seek your advice again as you were so knowledge with the little blue and white vases.  I have these other items which were bought together and are mostly all ironstone but I am not sure if the Urn is Japanese or European, any help would be greatly appreciated, its not in the best of condition but was like that when I bought it along with the other items again for little money, so if its tat it doesn't matter.  Thanks in advance for you time and help if you are able to give it.

Regards Mary

[Stan]

Hi MMcG, these photo's are really small, a larger one of the bottom and one of the decoration close ups thanks.

[peterp]

If it is Japanese export for Europe, then there is a good chance that they still used a Japanese mark.
If there is none, it may be difficult.

[MMcG]

Hi Stan and Peter

Here are the other photos, hope they are better, it is very hard to see what the marks are but perhaps you will be able to make them out, it is a bit of a squiffy piece with not a lot of value I think but it would be nice to know if it is Japanese or European, as I said it was amongst the Masons Ironstone which must have been someones collection at some point before I got them.

Thank you both for taking the time to look and comment.

Best Regards

[Mat]

Looks ok for early 20th c Kyoto Satsuma export ware...

[Stan]

It looks like Satsuma, but the on the bottom it was numbered and what appears to be a English name and it looks like it was fired that way, also the foot is unusual for Japanese, I think it is a European made vase in the Satsuma style, Peter brings up a good point, it would have been signed if it was Japanese Export,

[Mat]

Stan, most examples of these not so high quality export items I have seen were unmarked or had only some numerals on them (Japanese numerals, like "right 3" or "left7" which has something to do with the production line... I am not sure if what we can see is a mark, MMcG, what do you think, as you can inspect it in real life? The decoration and the paste fits perfect for Kyo Satsuma of the period I mentioned, in my opinion...

[Stan]

Hi Mat, it looks like FA/78 and under that looks like DMFY unknown maker and note the rounded foot rim, Japanese early 20th century would have had a flat foot wouldn't it, I have never seen Japanese marked this way, I do know that the Europeans copied Japanese and Chinese and some of there copies are pretty convincing, you are right a hands on inspection would tell more but notice also the white ground crackle on the bottom, the color is not quit right in my opinion.

[Mat]

Hmm, yes, in the first set of pictures the color looks better for being Japanese. As for the footrim, you are right, usually it would be flat... Still, the decoration makes me think it is gnuine Japanese, but of course I can be wrong...

[MMcG]

Hi All,
Thank you all for your input, I thought it was Mason's Ironstone because I bought it with Mason's plates, but it looked Japanese and didn't have Mason's on the bottom.
I'm none the wiser.  I don't have a clue about ceramics so can't help at all even with hands on I wouldn't know the difference.
I have bought things in the past because I liked them and they were cheap so don't know a lot about them as back then I didn't ask any questions as they were being sold at village fairs by people who were having a clear out as well, if it has not got a name on the bottom then I don't have a scooby.
It's fun trying to find out tho.
Regards

[MMcG]

Another question, would or should it have had a lid, and also the wings on the weird birds or dragons have been broken at some point and reattached.

[Stan]

Hi MMcG, this photo looks more Japanese than the other photos, the color in this photo looks like an Ivory color, is the bottom the same color? I have seen some of Kinkozan's works that looks very similar, he did his with butterflies instead of gargoyles on the sides, he embossed and signed a lot of his pieces sometimes on the side of the vase, can you see anything embossed or signed, even though the foot rim  looks rounded I am leaning more in agreement with Mat, BTW it would have had a lid, any time you see an unglazed area on the top it would have been for a lid.

[Stan]

I wonder if the writing on the bottom could be washed off, its possible it could have been marked by a previous owner.

[MMcG]

Hi Stan

I tried washing the mark off the bottom, but it is still there no different, I found a mark inside, well I think its a mark but while taking the picture I found another mark which I'm excited about as I think you will be able to tell me what it is now....
Colour is cream, reddish orange, greyish green, gold a bit of blue and some white on the flowers.

[Mat]

That mark on the rim is Japanese for " right 9", a typical marking for these wares.