Vase

[kardinalisimo]

Recent?
Thanks

[Stan]

Yes, I agree, recent, the Hongxian mark if authentic would have been made during 1915 - 16 in the imperial kilns and would have had a 5 claw dragon and the quality would have been a higher quality, beings that the would be emperor Yuan Shikai reined for 100 days, I can imagine items from this period would be extremely rare, some of the marks are attributed to the 30's and 21st century I'm sure.

[kardinalisimo]

Thanks for the reply Stan.
I also think it is not from the period but hard to tell if still Republic or much later. Never seen such type of decoration.
Some people believe that the only genuine Hongxian pieces were marked only with the Jurentang seal mark. But I've seen Chrisites claiming some of their porcelain with Hongxian marks to be from the period.

[Stan]

I have a piece that I believe is from that period, the decoration is amazing, I have never seen anything like it as far a quality in the detail.

[peterp]

I would be interested in seeing that, Stan. I have not seen many and am always ready to learn more about that period. I have a Xuantong marked item, a cup that I believe could be of the period immediately preceding the Hongxian period, but could also be later. These pieces are also mostly attributed to a later period in the early republic. The problem is that they often are painted in the style of the previous period, but some of the decorations of these two periods are said to have been decidedly different in style from those of the Guangxu reign.

[Stan]

I posted it here before, it is a bottle vase and was made into a lamp at one time, the mark is still readable and it is the identical to the one that Christies had, it is also in one of my books, same size and very similar decorations, I will post it again if it got lost in the archives.

[peterp]

I found it, thanks, Stan. Yeah, that type is difficult to tell  from the decoration alone. There is a type of period porcelain that is quite unlike those of the late Qing dynasty. But this is not the one. Maybe I have to get a book specialized on this period.

[Stan]

Hi Peter, one thing that I have never seen before on Chinese porcelain is on the leaves on the shoulder, the veins in the leaves have gold on top, I have never seen that before and the time it must have taken and the precision to apply gold on a hair line must have taken a lot of skill, not that they could not do that today but have you ever heard such a thing, it is worth mentioning, I wonder if the one that Christies had was the same, I have never sent them pictures.

[peterp]

Stan, if I remember gilt was already used this way on Kangxi Imari wares, on leaves. I would be very careful in view to quality. What you probably mostly see is export quality painting, which you can rate at at least at three levels. The top one is difficult to find. The era is also a factor. If you have a look at good quality Jiaqing or Daoguang export, Canton enamel wares, there are some pretty high quality wares showing very intricated details. But that is not fencai. Imperial wares used some different techniques (falangcai), a sort not used/known by common kilns, they were painted inside the palace workshops. Not until the late Guangxu reign or afterwards did outside kilns start making some, but they are generally few in number as the decoration methods was complicated.
I would say that 20th century imitations can mostly copy any top or imperial quality items, if they want to, down to the most intricate details. The technology and artistry is there, but it is costly. So we may see contemporary fakes or later copies of imperial quality. That is what it makes it so difficult to recognize if an item is original or a top quality copy.

Here is a link to polychrome wares at the National Palace Museum in Taipei, which houses the larger part of the original imperial collection:  tinyurl.com/hlzcbxs
You can search for these or perhaps even for Hongxian wares online, but you should add "npm.gov.tw" behind the search terms, to make sure that the museum's collection comes up in the search results. Maybe you have luck and find something. As far as I know much of the Hongxian wares were made for and presented to foreign envoys, etc., so that the museums may not have much to show in this respect.