Blue white bottles chinese/ japanese?

[hoogenbosch67]

Thank you with help on the following.
As most visitors of this site, I bought an antique looking chinese vase and was curious about the age and authentity of this vase. After reading the information on the site and buying the ebook (very interesting) it was obvious I bought a replica with a fake stamp. I also contacted an antiquair who told me it was from beginning- or middle 20th century wholesale price around 100/200 euro. Luckily I didnt pay that much
Now I have bought another object looking for several age signs and hope anybody can help. These 2 bottles blue white have chinese or japanese text? I have found several agesigns like rust, cranksand some gray stains etc. I made some pictures I will attach. What do you think of these 2 bottles. I also attach a picture of my fist vase. I have several pictures but will attach only 5, please let me know if you want to see all pictures
Greetings Jan

[Stan]

This is a Japanese saki bottle, and looks like an early one possibly Edo period.

[peterp]

Japanese sake bottle. Not all characters are shown. The large ones:
Moriuchi (family name) Sake ???
Telephone 2101...
Most likely either a Sake dealer or Sakaba (place for drinking it).

Has some age, but due to the phone number it cannot be that old. Taisho or Showa era is more likely.

[Stan]

I agree with the age  and telephone number, could the phone number have been added at a later date I have some 19th century sake bottles but this one looks older judging by the foot and bottom?

[peterp]

I have considering this too, Stan. But Japanese ceramics are not my field. You should know better than me if they do or did that (adding something later) in Japan.

[hoogenbosch67]

Hello all,
Thanks for all replies. I will add extra photos of both bottles and go on with your information. greetings Jan

[hoogenbosch67]

Hello all,
Thanks for all replies. I will add extra photos of both bottles and go on with your information. greetings Jan

[hoogenbosch67]

Hello all,
Thanks for all replies. Last 4 pitures with al text of both bottle 1 . greetings Jan

[hoogenbosch67]

Hello all,
Thanks for all replies. Last 4 pitures with al text of both bottle 2 . greetings Jan

[peterp]

From top down:
- a long number
- seemingly a logo (of sake, assumedly), another phone no. below
- perhaps a name

- a street address
- looks again like a logo
- Moriuch iSaka??? already mentioned before.

I wonder if the sake was sold in these bottles?
Here in Taiwan a well known liquor factory also sold their liquor in porcelain bottles.

[hoogenbosch67]

Searching on internet I found almost the same bottle

Japanese antique blue & white ovoid form porcelain sake bottle, or Tokkuri: with words decorated on a cream colored glaze background, Late Meiji to Taisho Period (late 19th century); H: 13-1/2"

www.liveauctioneers.com/item/10989197_antique-japanese-blueandwhite-porcelain-sake-bottle

[hoogenbosch67]

Another
A Japanese tokkuri, or sake bottle, dating to the late Meiji Era (1868-1911) has underglaze cobalt blue Kanji script identifying the sake shop and its locale. The Kanji is free spirited and bold, appropriate for the use of the container, proclaiming ?Miyaka Sake, 214 Genrou Cho.? This utilitarian piece is from Saga Prefecture on Japan?s south island of Kyushu, where early very simple blue and white Imari was produced solely for the Japanese market. (See similar underglaze blue and white ceramic sake bottles in the article ?Tokkuri and Friends,? by Bernard Stoltie, Arts of Asia, January/February 1995, p. 109.) This early 20th century tokkuri is in perfect condition with no chips or cracks. Dimensions: height 11? (28 cm), diameter 8? (20.4?).

[hoogenbosch67]

Another equal bottle
This is an amazing large Tokkuri sake jug. A family would keep these and then bring them to the local sake shop to have them re-filled. Wonderful utilitarian art that was made for re-use. An idea ahead of its' time. Very heavy thick pottery. This particular Tokkuri or Choshi is in the Tsuru-Kubi form. It is 19 inches in diameter & 10 1/2 inches tall. Lovely cobalt blue kanji. Condition is VG with the imperfections and wear of old pieces. These were often fired in batch and you can see the odd line in the material due to this. It came out of a doctor's estate down in MA. He had a sizable Asian collection with very high-end pieces. It may have been produced in Saga on the south island of Kyushu where the form and coloration were produced for a time. This one was created in the Showa period in 1939. It is really remarkable as many did not survive as they were intended for use and carried to and from the markets. Shipping will include insurance on domestic shipping. These are thick heavy porcelain pieces with the weight of stoneware.
Please see:
"Tokkuri and Friends" by Bernard Stoltie, Arts of Asia of January/Feb 1995, P. 109," for reference.
These really are stunning and rare pieces. I've seen them sale for XXXXXXX a piece.
Best wishes and I hope you enjoyed seeing these and learning a bit about their history.

[Stan]

Thanks for the additional photo's, the foot rim would put this in the first half of the 20th century, I think if you did a little research on the phone number you might be able to narrow the date when it was made.

[peterp]

Just a short clarification, a tokkuri and a sake bottle are probably not the same. A tokkuri is used for serving sake, after warming it. It has a wide mouth convenient for pouring sake in. It is not a storage container as a bottle might be...