looking for info on pieces

Started by skysoldier, Aug 27, 2014, 11:17:06

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skysoldier

Hello, and thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide.  I've attached a couple photos of some pieces I inherited from my Dad, a WWII special ops guy in China.  He worked with high ranking officers in the transition army, one of whom presented my Dad with numerous similar pieces.  The officer told my Dad to care for the pieces because they would be of some value.  I've included the ID mark although it seems it doesn't matter.  So that's my story; I've only got the pieces in the picture and have never had them valued or authenticated before.  The pieces are in perfect condition - no cracks, chips, mars, etc.  Any thoughts, anyone?
Thanks in advance.  I hope the photos come through, I don't see them in the preview. 





Stan

Can you send a picture of the whole bottom one showing the foot rim and a close up of the  foot rim, this will help in determining the age.

skysoldier

Thanks Stan, I'll get those photos posted soon.  If I don't post just what you're asking for (I'm not even a novice at porcelain), please let me know.

skysoldier

OK Stan, here they are & thanks for your feedback.

Stan

Thanks for the additional photos, I think this one is for Peter to answer , I have never seen a bottom like this one, the foot looks like a worm back foot used on imperial porcelain, the mark is a Qianlong mark, but I have never seen the bottom where inside the foot it goes down and then jogs down one more time, I do not think my self that this is a traditional imperial bottom in my opinion, lets see what peter says.

skysoldier

Thanks again, Stan.  Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if these pieces were imperial (if that means they're of the highest quality).  The officer who gave these to my Dad was actually a General (don't recall his name; he died in a plane crash in the early 1950s).  My Dad was a member of the Sino American Cooperative Organization (SACO) and was a great friend to the Chinese in their fight against Japan.  The General reiterated that the pieces would be of great value and I believe he meant it - he was really hoping that my Dad & his team would help prevent assasination attempts.  Crazy times, right?
So how would I be able to contact Peter, or will he eventually see this post & kindly provide a response?  Thanks again Stan, I really appreciate it.

Stan

One thing I can say about Peter is, he really studies before he posts so you can count on what he says, Im sure something of this kind would need some checking into.
While you are waiting could you also provide a photo of the bottom of the plate and a close up of the foot rim on the plate as well, Peter will reply I'm sure, and thanks for the provenance of your porcelain that really helps when evaluating the age of an item, it right away separates it from the new.

Stan

BTW would that have been General Stillwell?

skysoldier

Hey Stan, sorry, but the general was a Chinese general with a name I don't remember & would need help to spell.  He was a part of Mao's new gov't; my Dad had met Chiang Kai-shek and actually thought he was a decent guy.  Dad always wanted to go back to China - he respected the people he met and respected the culture.  Not sure what he'd think today. 
If you're ever interested in some of the good works the U.S. did in China during the war, just Google "Sino American Cooperative Organization".  My Dad was an early member and also a  personal friend w/Capt. Milton Miles (later Admiral Miles), the American commander for the group.  Dad was also a member of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) prior to and concurrent with SACO, and an instructor of hand-to-hand combat for the Chinese soldiers.  He was also the perfect infiltrator and traveled deep into occupied territory on numerous occassions, creating much havoc for the Japanese.  So, yeah, to me it seems likely that a gift to him would be of high value.  My time as a paratrooper seems pretty tame in retrospect.
Anyway, I've attached a couple of photos of the bowl's bottom & foot rim.  The mark isn't as detailed which seems odd to me since they are clearly of a set, and the extra ridge isn't present; not sure what that all means.  I also see that the bowl foot shows more wear than I thought but since it's over 250 years old, may not be surprising. 
Please let me know if this meets the need; if not, I can provide whatever will benefit.  And I really appreciate all your time and consideration.

Stan

Thank you, the only thing on can say that may help peter for review is one more photo of the plate, if you can take a picture of the foot rim at an angle so we can see the shape of the out side and inside, that really tells a lot about the age, thanks and thanks again for the history and provenance.

skysoldier

Got it.  Here's a couple of the inside/outside of the plate foot, one of the inside lip of the tea pot & one of the inside of the tea pot lid.  Thanks folks.

peterp

I'm afraid I have to pour on some cold water here, as the Chinese would say.
Red stamped Qianlong marks in Kaiti style characters are almost always found on 20th century porcelain, early republic or later.  The bottom of the pot/ewer is not a traditional feature either. In addition, please be aware that this is a type of decoration that has been produced far into the 20th century, and possibly still is being made in some variations. In my view this is second quarter of the 20th century at the most.

skysoldier


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