Chinese or Vietnamese vase ??

[Dominique]

Hi there, I need help about this chinese vase ?? It can be vietnamese ? It's 13 inches tall.
Thanks.
Dominique.

[peterp]

The bottom and decoration look Chinese, late Qing. But the neck deems to be wider than usual. Can you upload a picture showing the interior of the mouth and more detailed views of the decoration?

[Dominique]

Hre they are...
Thanks !
Dominique.

[peterp]

Hi Dominique,

I'm not much farther with these pictures now. And that is a problem of the times. Age faking is ever getting better, and due to the current market situation items that would have been unacceptable before are appearing more often. With that I mean items that make you doubt whether they are antique or not. Sometimes there is no clear-cut answer. Maybe an inspection of the glaze with a microscope would be more decisive in this case.

So, this opinion is just from my personal experience. First back to the shape, yes the neck has an uncommon, large diameter, but the body looks like late Qing dynasty. The spots in the mouth are there, but more often than not they are not evenly distributed as here. Normally these are glaze indents that are dirty, and they are often increasing in number down the neck, deeper into the vase. 
You could check if the spots are actually indents or if they are just that, dark spots in the glaze. If they are the latter, then a magnifier should show if the are just on the surface of the glaze or not. If yes, it means they could have been artificially added.

The other thing is the painting (style).
There are leafless trees and the painter tried to give the mountains a white interior, as if it was Kangxi style. But the strokes used for painting the mountains look different. And the building details are a bit different from the late Qing dynasty too. There is more detail in this respect.

So, definitely Chinese in style, but from pictures alone I would not dare tell if it is authentic Qing or later. If I would have to decide whether or not to buy this via pictures online, without access to the actual item. I would be cautious. There is a 50% chance that you get something that is not Qing, I would think. Sorry for not being able to give you a more definitive answer. 

[peterp]

Fact is that during the last number of years items with features that leave questions as to authenticity is ever increasing. That is probably because the number of authentic items being traded has decreased. The latter appears to be due to restrictions in China. Formerly, items over one hundred years old could not be exported, but this has changed... now only items 50 years or less are officially allowed out.
In addition it seems that rules have become stricter. Antiques over a certain age must be registered (in China) by the people owning/collecting them. It is said that if items that should be registered but are not are found, they will be confiscated. The real antiques market within China itself also seems to have contracted due to the stricter rules. 

All of the above now has affected what is available abroad now. Items that were not desirable before are now suddenly getting acceptable. We just need to be careful, more than ever, because of this. Always inspect everything closely if the supplier is not well-known.

[Dominique]

Hi Peterp
I bought this vase 12 years ago in a garage sale following the death of the owner, I did not pay much for it.
The black dots are 'holes' as can be seen in the photos...
Thanks anyway for your help.
Dominique.

[Stan]

I agree with Peter, the decoration is a little off from other like decorations on Late Qing, also note their are 4 lines on the outside foot, I have never seen that on Chinese vases, only on Japanese porcelain.

[Dominique]

Good morning, so, can it be japanese ?

[peterp]

One more question, the glaze indents shown in your last image, do they exist in the decoration itself too, or are they only prominent in the white areas?  

[Dominique]

I Stan, can it be japanese ?
Tanks to both of you, Dominique.

[Dominique]

I'm not sure to understand 'glaze indents'...

[Stan]

Usually on Japanese porcelain from Arita kilns they had 2 or 3 bands on the outside of the foot and 1 band on the bottom close to the inside foot, I can't say I ever seen one with 4 bands on the outside of the foot like this one has, And the pitting on this looks to uniform, like they were added, As Peter already mentioned, Pitting on the inside looks normal, but a close up photo of the pitting on the inside is needed to see if they are natural or not.

[peterp]

Two things...assuming this being a big vase, resembling those of the late Qing dynasty, the foot added below is something I do not know. Such vases, at least those which I have seen or handled all have the side going all down to the bottom in one line, no specific foot rim added. With that said, it would be difficult to tell whether there should be rings or not. The whole foot looks different.
The glaze indents, or pitting as Stan calls it, was often developing in the kilns of the late Qing dynasty. The cause would be some material that was combustible or evaporated (fatty matter?) on the surface of the unglazed body. The glaze would cover it, but with the very high temperatures in the kiln the material evaporates or burns, leaving a tiny area without glaze. Sometimes that is filled or partially filled, with glaze flowing in from the side, sometimes not.
      What I feel is questionable in this respect:  why are there few indents inside the mouth where there normally are many. They are only on the outer area of the trumpet mouth, not deeper down. Why is the pitting so unusually deep, is the glaze thicker than usual? And before all, why are they on the bottom and the white area near the bottom and  on the wide mouth?
My question regarding indents inside the decoration was meant to see whether they are present and distributed inside the blue decoration. There should be if they are natural, but like Stan I got the impression that they might be artificially added. If this is so, this might explain all the discrepancies, as the whole thing might be from a much later time.

[Dominique]

Tanks for your help.
Dominique.