Ming Charger?

smak · Mar 04, 2022, 12:43:55

Hi what do you guys think?!

smak · Mar 04, 2022, 12:44:10

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smak · Mar 04, 2022, 12:44:31

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smak · Mar 04, 2022, 12:44:51

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smak · Mar 04, 2022, 12:47:50

I have some doubts!

peterp · Mar 04, 2022, 13:43:47

Just stay away. This is a fake Yuan style plate and it is easy to see. The chrysanthemums, for example are badly painted, and the bottom consistency and color should be completely different. And, should that dark area on the bottom be a mark.

Never buy Yuan blue/white wares unless you know it, and then only smaller items. Virtually all big items and large plates are either in the Topkapi in Turkey or in Iran. They were sold there in those times and few remain in China. Their rarity makes them a popular subject for faking.

smak · Mar 05, 2022, 00:05:33

Heh I see! Yeah I had some doubt as well, it just looks too new! But curious about the mark at the bottom, is that common for most Yuan pieces?

peterp · Mar 05, 2022, 07:43:27

The only Yuan items with a mark are a pair of tall vases in the British museum (I think, anyway, in a British museum). Any other marked items are in doubt and not acknowledged as authentic. The same is with Hongwu items. I believe there are 2 1/2 marks, they are cups with the mark inside. The 1/2 is a broken/partial item. Otherwise Hongwu had no marks.

If you want to look at Hongwu items go to https://digitalarchive.npm.gov.tw/ITWaterFall and enter "Hongwu"
Click on a picture to load more images, including the bottom. Often the bottom is very fine but without a glaze, a "sand bottom". Its color should look natural and not too uniform. Another remarkable thing about Hongwu is that its predominent type was underglaze red, in all other periods (Yuan/Ming) underglaze blue was predominant. It was also the first reign when underglaze red was of stable quality. Hongwu decoration features resembled closely those of the Yuan dynasty, but some features like the lotus petals, banana leaves, and chrysanthemums may differ. Many of those details differed from the Hongwu style too in the Ming Yongle reign and onwards.

These items are mostly in museums and nothing like this is available in the market. They would be extremely high priced if they went to auction. Not something for the average collector...