Small plates unknown mark

[wk]

I found a couple of these 8" plates with a busy red and gold decor which I've never seen before.
It has an unknown chinese mark on the back.

It says something like 'zai chun ting xin wu hao' but I can't find anything about it.

Any help would be welcome, thank you!

[peterp]

Decoration and mark are Japanese. 

[Stan]

The foot rim should be shown at an angle to show both front and back, if the front of the foot is straight up, it would be 20th century, I could not find the marks in my books.
One thing I would like to point out is the blue color, notice how it is not translucent, I am not a 100% sure but I think you see these type colors in tin glazes.

[Mat]

I have the same dish, it is late Edo period, very similar to Zoshuntei pieces. The mark is not recorded as far as I know, it could read "Sai Shun Tei Shin Oku Kou"...

[Stan]

Hi Mat, it is very difficult to see from this photo the outside of the foot rim is yours rounded or straight up? BTW " Late Edo Period" would there have been a mark like this? most items were not marked at this time, unless it was a very special peice, I would also like to bring to your attention the mark it self, and again these photos are small but if you look carefully at the glaze retraction by the mark it looks like it was added at a later time, a close up of the mark could confirm this.

[peterp]

Hi Mat, I would forget about the second part of the mark (???). It is making little sense in Japanese in my view. I tried to see if it could be a person's name, but there is none. But any Chinese speaker will agree that it sounds quite normal in Chinese. The character ? has a different usage in Japanese, so unless this is/was a place name or shop name it will be difficult to find any answer. Could it be that this mark is a variation, or related to, the 'zoshuntei' mark?
It seems that even on the Japanese internet they do not really know where this mark originated from. Possibly that was just used for a limited time, or it was used for export.

[Mat]

Hi Peter, yes, the second part of the mark is a problem, it makes no real sense. I have discussed it with Japanese readers and they had no really good explanation, best guess was indeed a place name. It is very likely that it is just another mark used by Hisatomi Yojibei Masatsune who also used the Zoshuntei brand name in the period 1842-1856. At least the style of the decoration is identical with wares that are signed "Zoshuntei". Stan, I do not think the mark was added later, these marks in overglaze red are typical for the export wares of that period, Zoshuntei used them, Hichozan and Yamaka too... The footrim on my dish is rounded, but the blanks for these came from the Mikawachi kilns (and were then decorated in Arita), as far as I know, and are a bit different to the Arita wares.

[Stan]

Nice picture of the inside of the foot, it would be nice to have a picture showing both, inside and the out side with the same clarity, and a close up picture of the mark esp. the character by the crack.

[Mat]

Here is a picture of the mark, I do not think that this is a crack, rather a single spur mark. I will try to make more photos of the footrim....

[Stan]

Hi Mat, I was more interested in the bottom of wk plate, the mark in the center of your plate is made from a stilt support in the kiln.

[wk]

Sorry it took a while, the camera on my phone has issues so had to order a new one.

I uploaded a larger photo here; imgur.com/a/si186

There's also a single spur on mine, but there does seem to be some differences in characters from Mat's plate.

[Stan]

Thanks for the additional photo, it looks like the mark was added before it was fired, the separation of the mark in conjunction with the firing fault looks natural, also I would like to point out the blue color, I believe this would have been imported to Japan, I saw a couple of Gourd shaped bottle vases on ebay with the same red decoration and blue color, he said his was mid 19th century and that is what Mat has been saying, the mark was different though, I have never seen a mark like this or the red decoration and the foot looks later to me but as Mat was saying the Milawachi kiln may have been different, I am not the knowledgable about Milawachi, however it really was not until 1868 and later that the Japanese marked their wares, that is interesting that they were marking the wares in this manner that early, I was always told to be cautious about Japanese porcelain that is marked earlier than 1868 because things at that time were hardly ever marked and raises an eyebrow.