Blue white Charger

[Andy Dorset]

Dear Peter/ Stan/ All,
Here is another Carboot find ?2 so again didnt break the bank. A large charger which is a great size at 15 inches in diameter. I have many Kangxi/ early 18th century plates of smaller proportion with the same glaze/ foot/ brown rim and design on the back but this is unusual in that it has a fairly light blue decoration and not the dark blue cobalt which is common. The design and everything else seems fine but this one thing bugs me.
Do we feel this is 18th century?
Again thanks in advance.
Andy

[Stan]

Hi Andy, I need a close up of the decoration on the front of the plate, the foot rim is 19th century at the most, a close up of the foot rim is needed to confirm this also.

[Andy Dorset]

Hi Stan, I would really like to differ but I appreciate your comments all the same. All of my Kangxi plates( I have probably over 30) and chargers have this same foot rim and design to the base some of them have been verified by Peter as Kangxi/ early 18th century. If you look at some of my previous postings there were a pair of chargers I own with fighting birds, same foot rim same design to the base again Peter said early 18th century. It was not the foot rim that puzzled me but the colour of the decoration.
Regards, Andy

[Andy Dorset]

Maybe Stan it is my images that seems to be causing the confusion. Here is a link to a appraisal I had with Peter last year with the chargers which hopefully will work. As I say these ( in life) have the same foot rim as this latest post for the 15 inch charger.

http://discussion.chinese-antique-porcelain.com/index.php/topic,1720.msg7825.html#msg7825

[Andy Dorset]

Hi Stan, forgot to send foot rim close up. Thanks in advance

[carlyoung]

I would agree with the Kangxi dating , maybe late Kangxi export , the foot is fine for Kangxi and the branches on the back of the plate also shout Kangxi.

Regards

Carl

[Stan]

Thanks for the additional photo of the foot, I can't see the outside of the foot rim from this photo, in the earlier photo's it looks like the out side the foot rim is straight and not rounded, if it is straight it would be 19th century at the most, the plates peter looked at has the Kangxi blue the you would expect, but these do not, just because the shape is a Kangxi shape does not necessarily make it Kangxi, we need to look at the whole and make an educated guess, the blue color on this plate is not Kangxi blue, it looks more 20th century in my opinion.

[peterp]

I would recommend to upload a better foot rim view, partial, done at about an angle of 45 degrees. From straight up it is difficult to tell whether it is right. The other one is very clear for the 18th century, but at this angle it seems this one has a foot rim that is straight up, both on the inside and outside. It should be slanted, otherwise it is not of that period, no matter what pattern is painted.
A closeup shot of a portion of the foot rim decoration for evaluation of blue color and lines may also help.

[carlyoung]

Andy , can I ask if you used a flash when taking the first set of photo's or under unnatural light ?, sometimes things can be distorted with artificial light.

[Stan]

I think the best is natural light next to a window on a sunny day.

[peterp]

This plate should be simple to date, if the right pictures and resolution are present, rather than large-siyed thumbnails.
These pictures show an overview over shape and decoration, no more.  It should be more accurate on the base, with the actual shape of the foot rim clearly visible (footr rim cross section shape must be right for 18th century), and if possible, the area inside the foot rim should also show a view taken at an oblique angel, in order to show if there are burst bubbles. There are no exceptions to the foot rim shape, no straight up foot rim to a 18th century item. Any plates with a straight rim are later copies.

Comparing decoration with known decorations is not of any use. A decoration is only of secondary importance for dating. Later periods can easily copy the designs of earlier ones, but not necessarily the base, including some traces of kiln conditions of earlier eras.

- To me the top decoration would be common in the Qianlong reign, but the decoration on the underside of the rim would be specific to the Kangxi reign. It is hardly found on a Qianlong plate.
- The foot rim may or may not be 18th century, the pictures do not show its cross shape as they are taken from straight above. The rim shape will be decisive for whether this can be 18th century or not.

A common Qinanlong decoration and a common Kangxi underside decoration, and an undecided rim shape - in my view this item can not be reliably dated as 18th century without closeup pictures.
The pictures are just not detailed enough, and questions remain. My personal opinion.