Chinese Jar with Cover

owest · Mar 30, 2014, 23:22:28

Dear all! I am new on this blog, as well as a novice in the Chinese porcelains world(!), so I beg your pardon for possible errors and ignorance... I recently came across a Chinese celadon porcelain jar, 6.5ins high and I really would like to know your opinion about it. Attached there are two pictures, one of the jar and one of the mark.....I really love it and I would like to buy it...but I would not like to get a chet!!!
Btw...congratulations for the blog!
Olly

Stan · Mar 31, 2014, 10:12:21

If you could take a picture of the inside of the lid, that would tell a lot as to how it was made, the newer ones are molded.

peterp · Mar 31, 2014, 14:19:25

Welcome to the Discussion Board.

This is a very beautiful jar, but it is difficult to tell if it is an authentic antique or not, as it is not showing any clear age signs in these pictures. It is at the border line where it is difficult to tell if an item is authentic or not, even by more experienced people.
It has a Qianlong reign mark. Its price would probably be very high if it were mark and period. On the other hand, if it is not of the period, it is more likely modern and not an old copy from a hundred years ago.
Even period items in museums do usually have some age signs, however subtle. Unless you can do a hands-on inspection, and check with a magnifier, and know what to look for, it is recommended to stay away from spotless items.

Stan · Mar 31, 2014, 22:29:15

Hi Peter, that is why you need to see the bottom of the inside lid, the newer ones are molded and easy to tell, the older ones are not.

Stan · Mar 31, 2014, 22:43:26

The reason I know that is because I bought a couple ginger jars with lids, and I had an expert do a hands on inspection and that was the first thing he noticed the lids were molded and the older ones are not and the obvious no pits, missing glaze, no cracking, no age signs, so I learned by the ones I have, I thought when I purchased them they would be at least early republic, but not so.

Stan · Mar 31, 2014, 22:50:38

More food for thought, the top of the lid the handle is pointed, the older ones are rounded, compare the ones on Christies, there was one that sold with a pointed handle and fetched a whopping $250.00 I wonder why?

peterp · Apr 01, 2014, 08:20:15

Hi Stan, I have some doubts about your reasoning in view to the lid.
First, the inside of a lid is helpful because, like the bottom, it may show age signs better than the rest, and sometimes it is not glazed (either the whole interior or its rim). Unglazed parts are more revealing in few to production methods or age, clay density, etc.
I'm not sure if a molded lid means anything age-wise. It could perhaps for some periods or kilns, but may be irrelevant with others. Molding itself is an old technique. Many of the Yuan and Song dynasty plates, bowls, etc. were pressed into molds, either directly of after throwing. Mostly this was done for impressing decorations or special shaping, rather than for mass production.
I'm not sure if most lids were turned or not.

What concerns the pointed handles, thinking that its shape is pointing to a later manufacturing date is unreliable, I'm afraid. Many if not most of those lids from the 18th century I have seen were probably pointed. Ball shaped and flat ones were rather in the minority. It may just be a matter of preference, or what was fashionable at a certain time.
I can imagine why some lids may fetch very high prices. First, I should mention that many lids we see are not original, but replacements. Many jars have no lid at all, or a wooden one, because the original one was lost or broken. If a lid is missing from an item, its value decreases somewhat (depends on the item). A perfectly matching lid may increase an expensive item's value considerably. I have heard of dealers who sell jar and lid separately, to make more profit due to the above.

Stan · Apr 01, 2014, 08:59:43

When I was comparing mine to Christies, all the ginger jar lids that were antique were rounded except one that was shaped like this one and the ones I have , it did not sell for much, but if you say it dose not matter, I will take your word for it.
The gentlemen that did the hands on inspection is the one that mentioned the molded lid, he never said anything about the top being pointed or round, it is something that I noticed when I was comparing mine to the ones on Christies, thanks peter for keeping me inline.

peterp · Apr 01, 2014, 10:32:36

You are right what concerns the shape of lids. Mostly ginger jars seem do have lids that have either a rounded or flat top, but there are a few different shapes with knobs.

owest · Apr 02, 2014, 01:41:06

Dear all, thank you very much for all your explications, suggestions and precious information!! Apologies for having disappeared, I have constantly follow your replies, but I was very busy at work and wanted to thank you appropriately.
Following the debate, I sadly suppose that "my" jar is not an authentic one...here some more pictures...

Stan · Apr 02, 2014, 04:30:19

The inside is like the older ones, not like the one I had a hands on inspection, I will send you a picture, so peter can see, but I do have older jars that has a lid exactly like yours. The expert said mine is modern, Peter do you agree?

peterp · Apr 02, 2014, 07:51:13

Stan, I have not see any lid among the antique ones which had an lower rim that is turned inwards. Usually the inner part part would just go straight down.
Also, the knob on your lid is wider than usua, at its base. I would expect a tiny hole or none at all. A hole is only required if the knob is hollow inside, which most are not.