Hi Peter, the auctioneer said that these vases are from the republican period 1912 to 1949 they are all hand drawn and painted, the height is 40.6 cm the pair are reverse paintings, there is a couple things I would like to point out, one is the bottom foot is like bulged out and the other is like a stipple affect in the glaze, not on the inside just the outside, there is writing on the vase and I think there might be a date, I tried to find the date using your sicklical calendar but the characters I can not read, the detail is very good on these vases, please let me know if you can find a date or the maker, thanks peter, I will post 16 photos.
Here are four more photo's.
Four more photo's.
Last set of photo's.
Hi Stan,
This is Qianjiang style painting. The handwriting is difficult to read.
The second character of the cyclical year is too modified to be sure. We have come up with two possible characters. They amount to the years 1868 1898 or 1928.
The artisan is Xu Shan-qin. Her birth and death years are unknown. Her most active period was in the early Guangxu reign. I found an item dated as early as 5th year of Tongzhi (1867). Thus if the above date would be 1928, she would have had already a fair age.
I cannot read the text on the vase to verify if it is the signed artisan's work or someone doing it after or in the artisan's style. Sometimes, with Qianjiang, it is mentioned that a work was a copy or made after the work of so-and-so.
The URL tinyurl.com/l3wl45g should show you some of her works. Please note the eyes, they are different from those on your vases. You know what that might mean, but sometimes painters changed style suddenly, in their life, and some painted differently when they were young and older.
Thanks peter.
Hi again Peter, is the hair on the women here a 19th century style or 20th century?
The woman working at the embroidery has a hair style of the 19th century, so seems the one behind. The others would be 20th century, I would think. But this was a time of changes, when old things were changing and new ones were had not firmly settled in yet. Unlike government changes, there would not have been a clear break between styles in fashion.
The type of hair style of the seated woman would have been normal in the Qing dynasty for women of the non-working classes.
Note:
The only abrupt change of hair style I know of was the change to the pigtail by men, at the beginning of the Qing dynasty. The Manchus seem to have forced all men to change to it by threat of death, and those who did not change were probably considered remnants of the Ming.
Good information, thanks Peter.
I think we can rule out 1868 and 1898 and so 1928 looks like a possibility, I would like to point out a couple of things, the first is the bottom foot is rounded or bulged at the bottom and the second is a stipple like finish on the outside of the vase, I am not sure that there was such a finish in 1928 it almost looks like it could have been sprayed on thick to cause such a finish, have you ever seen a finish like this on republic porcelain? and the bulge at the bottom could that be from this period, I looked at Christies and did see a vase from the republican period with a bottom like this but I could not get a close up picture to view details, like you mentioned if this was authentic she would have been in her 80s or 90s.
I forgot to mention that the reason I bought these was because the inside of the vases look like they are from that period, there are good signs of age inside the vases and not to mention that the auctioneer auctioned them as republic vases,
Hi Stan, you are in a better position to check on the nature of glaze and colors used in the decoration. The shape of the base is indeed something that is unusual, at least for the early 20th century, but it still could be republic. The style and content of the decoration (the people) looks all as if they could be early republic, but such a base would have been unusual then. The age of the artisan would have been another unlikely factor.
In my opinion this might be an imitation; much of the handwriting is difficult to read and I am not sure if it is mentioned that a work of the named artisan was copied or not. This handwriting is difficult for me.. Sometimes it is mentioned, sometimes not.
By the way, did they say "republic vases" or "in the style of", or similar at the auction?
I am sure you are aware of the difference.
At the auction it was listed as a pair of republic vases, it did not say republic style, but this type of glaze I have seen before but I just assumed that it was new because a finish like this was either sprayed or put on with a roller of some kind to give it that Orange peel look or stipple, I am not familiar with that type of finish.
Stan, I would be careful with the word "republic" for dating anyway. This is not a fixed period. There are different interpretations. Those who recognize the PRC are usually setting its end at 1949, while those who recognize the ROC will tell you that we still have the republic. But, considering that the PRC still uses the "R"epublic in its naming it "might" be that this is 'used' or confused in a more favourable way for dating by some.
Thanks Peter, I will use your words of caution.
In the photo that is numbered 8jpg this photo shows the texture in the vases, upon a more thorough inspection, I have found that the stipple texture was not applied by a spray of any kind but in fact was applied to the porcelain with some kind of a tool may be a nap roller, if it was a spray on it would have been even trough out the vase, but I can see where it is missing texture in areas that a roller could not reach it is flat in those areas especially around the neck, I believe the maker of this vase applied this texture as part of his craft while the porcelain was still playable, The reason I know this is because I am an expert on Dry Wall finishes and I can match any texture there is on dry wall, at first I thought this was sprayed on but it couldn't be the way, it was definitely applied with a tool of some kind and then painted, the question we need to ask ourselves is when was this type of craft used, I know that porcelain and dry wall are two different trades all together but the finish work in dry wall can be very similar to porcelain in other applications.
I wish I could see it in person. Looking at the picture you mentioned I see what you mean, but I wonder if it could be a natural glaze condition. I never heard of the use of a roller with Chinese porcelain. The two glaze application methods I know consist of spraying the glaze on, and of dipping the whole item into the glaze, but there are probably other methods, like pouring it over the item.
You know perhaps that there are two glaze conditions known that result in the glaze not being smooth. These are normal during certain periods. One is wave (wavy) glaze, the other an orange peel glaze, which both would be normal in certain periods. This pictures resembles somewhat the wave surface of the former.
But I have also seen glazes on items which probably were abnormal, caused possibly by either the kiln temperature or the composition of the glaze. One of these glazes looked the same as some paints do when they get together with the wrong solvent. Compared to that one the glaze on your item looks quite normal, at least in the area shown.
Well you certainly know more than I do about how the glaze is applied, I suppose that it could have been caused by the glaze and not on the porcelain it self, but if it had been dunked in the paint all at once or sprayed it would be even all over, but this looks like it was applied with some kind of tool, I only mentioned a roller because I have created that type of a texture on walls and ceilings by spraying or rolling on a compound to get that effect, with a roller I can easily tell the difference between a spay and a roller, I do not think it was sprayed or dunked, I will try to send a better photo of the texture and the inconsistency of the texture, if it was sprayed or dunked you would think that the end results would be an even texture, I will try to send a better photo, when I took these photos I was not thinking of the texture when I took them. Thanks Peter for taking the time to discuss how these items are made.