I passed this three-legged, handled bowl with a foo dog top in a local consignment shop. Didn't buy it, and the clerk had no information about the piece, but was kind enough to hold it up and let me take these photos. I only recognize the "created by" and "zan" bits. Thanks. Kaaren
Hi Kaaren, it reads Kinkozan Zo looks like Meiji period on the later side 1st quarter of the 20th century. BTW Kinkozan is very collectable.
Wouldn't you know it, for once I notice something worth noticing, and that's the day I say, Nah, too much money, and walk out without it.
Erm - does this look like Kinkozan's work? I've heard of him, of course, but I didn't see crackle glaze or any Satsuma characters.
They're open on Sunday. I'll ride down there first thing tomorrow.
Thanks, Stan!
Im pretty sure this came from his Factory, the price is right and it looks like it is in good shape, nice find.
Thanks, Stan! Note that the lid is cracked and has been repaired, glued back underneath, so not visible from outside. That's the main reason I didn't buy it. It is normally against my religion to buy cracked or chipped ceramics, especially at this price. I'll see if I can negotiate a lower price due to the cracked lid.
So, coming from the factory - does that mean it is not signed by Kinkozan himself, but by one of his benchmen?
I lived in Northern New Mexico for years, so have a large collection of turquoise jewelry, and you get to know certain signatures that indicate the work of a benchman in a renowned shop. Doesn't mean the work isn't good, many of those benchmen were fine artists but couldn't make a living on their own, so worked in shops.
Is this a similar situation? Thanks again. K.
Well, I did purchase this today. The clerk gave it to me for $30 when I pointed out the cracked lid.
I found two other marks: one under the lid on its flat rim, and the other on the inner top lip of the bowl itself.
I will post them below, they do not seem identical. Any additional info on these appreciated. Kaaren
The characters on the lid rim are 左十五 (the translated meaning would be 'left fifteen', but...in Japanese some people have such names, could be a personal name or something completely different. I know it sounds strange but that is a fact.
Not sure if it is a mark at all or has some other purpose.
Cannot read the other ones beccause the first and third could be the same character, but could also be 左, 右, 方, written badly by hand. The second and fourth characters could also be the same, again due to the handwriting difficult to tell for sure. Looks like the chracter six (六).
I think this was one of a pair, the other was probably broken beyond repair, as Peter mentioned Left, On pairs with lids esp. with foo dogs or other subjects, the marks were placed to line up the lid as the potter would want them to be positioned, like the potter might want the foo loins facing each other and the other lid would have right on it so the lid would go on the correct vase or bowl, and if there is no Foo dogs or other figures but just lids then the potter would simple put lines on the lid and base to position the lid on the base, I have several like that.
Yes Stan, I thought of that possibility too, but this leads to two new questions. For alignment, they could have used arabic (our) numbers or any other symbols that are simpler, the other is why would they write something at all. This may have been necessary only if they fired item and lid separately, after pairing them first, but would they have been able to decide before firing?
I do not know much about the Japanese kiln firing conditions, but with Chinese items the lids and items were normally fired separately, then fit together after firing. But, due to the fact that they often used long dragon (aka snake) kilns, the items would end up with slightly different colors, because firing temperatures were different according to the location inside the kiln. They would pair the lids and items after firing, but no further marking for this purpose would have been needed. Sometimes this is the cause for slight color differences.
Do you have any further information on this?
Hi Peter, sorry, I missed your post, we discussed this a long time ago and maybe that is what lead me to believe that alignment of lids were marked to line them up with the base, here are some examples of lids lined up on their base, I hope I am not taking this out of context, you be the judge.
Here are more examples of vases showing marks of right or left sides.
Here are more photo's showing lids and bases marked to align.
Here are the last examples show lids with marks to align or showing right and left marks, thanks for looking.
Sorry Kaaren for hijacking your post.
That kind of marking is interesting, I know too little about this.
Stan, 二, 三 are more likely for marking which lids belong together. They are the numbers 2 and 3, by the way. I can not figure out why someone would use "fifteen" for this.
The two lids contain also this 左十五, one of them three times. I still think it could be a name, perhaps of a potter or painter?
(In Japanese there exist some personal names using only numbers for writing, but which may be normal in Japan, but not widely used. I know it sounds odd to someone in the west, but it is a fact. Often the reading of such names deviates from the usual number reading if it is used in a name, it is just the characters that are written that way.)
I cannot imagine why someone would use "fifteen" for pairing items; I will see if I can find a name like this. It could be a male name.
The characters inside the mouth of the Satsuma jars, above the circles are left and right, respectively (left=左. right=右). Most likely for the positioning of the jars. They are reversed in the photo.
The name in the vases beside the mark could again be the same name. The first character has the stroke order a bit wrong, possibly due the handwriting. The second character is the old character for "ten", thus the name might again be "left fifteen".
I will try to find out more.
Thanks Peter, I will be very interested to know if it is a name, the first pair of vases are Nishida, made in Kyoto, it will be interesting to find out exactly what the characters mean inside the lids, thanks for all your help, and you to Kaaren for letting me hijack your discussion posts.
No need to apologize for "hijacking". I now own the bowl and am also curious as to what the marks mean.
And, this is way those of us who frequent this site learn. If we knew what you two know, we wouldn't need to ask. :)
Hi Peter, this is a recent purchase, I am still doing research on it, On a guess, I would say it is from the 2nd quarter of the 20th century, but while we were discussing alignment marks I checked this one to see, and sure enough here are two lines in the lid and base, and when you line them up the decoration on the lid and jar line up perfectly as do 0there's, this would be to much of a coincidence, the pair of Satsuma vases with the Foo dog lids, the mark on the inside pair of vases, if you notice the decoration are reverse painted and the marks are exactly positioned in the same place to line up the fact that they are reverse paintings, this can not be coincidence, therefor I think the positioning of marks on lids and base were added to line up the decoration, I am more convinced now than ever that that is true, but not all the time I also have examples that have no alignment marks at all so that must be a Meiji and later tradition until proven to be in the Edo period, not sure at this point. BTW. Peter can you read the bottom marks, I can not find them in my books on marks. Thank you for your help.
Hi Kaaren, I would like to add that you got a great deal for $30.00 even with a repaired lid it is still a good example and very collectable.
Thank you! I am very pleased to have a Kinkozan in my little collection, and might not if it hadn't been for this site, as $45 is not an small sum for a retired lady on a modest income. I do know the clerk, but asking for a reduction of $15 is a lot to ask for, and if it weren't for the damaged lid, I doubt she'd have gone down more than $5.
So I'm very happy to have it, and for all the things I learn on this site. K.