Hi Peter and all, here is a large Famille rose bowl that I believe to be 18th century, the width is 40.89 cm and it is 12.7 cm tall, it has a mark scratched in the porcelain China, I think that is when it was exported some where between 1880s and 1920 that is when they would have scratched the name China for export, but I think it is much earlier because of the bottom, the bottom is an 18th century bottom and I think everything else looks good for that period but I am not a 100% sure, I will post 17 pictures for your viewing, thank.
Here is more photo's to view.
Here are more photo's to view.
Here is the last set of photo's to view, thanks.
To me this looks like a wash basin. The decoration is typical for Gangxu. This is not export porcelain, despite the scratched "China".
Hi Peter, what makes you think Guangxu period.
Hi Peter, sorry, you already gave your reason, the typical decoration for Guangxu, I have a hard time with the Famille patterns and the age they relate to, I suppose the more I collect the more I learn and thanks for letting me know what it was used for, I tried finding something similar on christies under wash basin and nothing came up.
Peter, is that a typical bottom on a bowl for that period, it looks like 18th century plates, it is done the same way, that is why I thought it was 18th century.
Stan, I think Peter said before the general rules for the bottoms of the plates are just for the plates. I guess different rules applies for the different type of vessels. Plus, remember we discussed few times about newer decoration on old bodies.
Hi kardinalisimo, is that what you think that this is an older basin with guangxu decoration, it could be but I do not think so, it looks to me with a hands on inspection that all the decoration and age signs are from one firing, but I am still learning about these types of decorations, so you could be right.
You will have to forgive me Peter and Kardinalisimo if I keep asking the same questions, eventually it will get through this thick head, but this bottom looks a little older than Guangxu, maybe your right kardinalisimo, maybe it is later decoration on older basin.
Stan, are you saying the type of the bottom and the foot rim are common for Early Qing or just the base shows age that you think is older than Guangxu. Older how?
The question is if this type of decoration motif ever existed during Early Qing.
By the way, is not the base similar to the one on the basin I posted about a week ago?
I will look at the one you posted, and yes on the bottom of mine the age signs look older and so dose the foot rim, am I wrong?
Your right Kardinlalisimo, yours is very similar, so is that what mine is Fencai?
Well,
Fencai is what the Chinese call the overgrazed enamels decoration.
Here is a good read:
http://koh-antique.com/history/falang.htm
Then, you know, you have doucai, wucai etc.
Also, the new fencai, qianjiang
http://koh-antique.com/qj/qjmain.html
The 'famille' terms are more westernized. Famille rose would be fencai with predominant rose color. But people seems to use that term on whatever.
Thanks kardinalisimo for the site great information.
As was already said, the foot rims of plates cannot be compared to those of other items.
The underside decoration of red bamboo is actually typical for the Jiaqing/Daoguang period.
Due to the perfect condition of the interior painting I have been asking myself if this could have been repainted later. Usually, fencai decorated wash basis have a fair amount of abrasion, etc., sometimes to a degree that the decoration is almost gone. This is of course due to daily use.
What concerns Falangcai, I recommend forgetting about this...unless a very high amount of money or extraordinary luck is involved, it is difficult to ever get any!!!
Real falangcai of the imperial period was painted in the workshops inside the palace. The body was fired in JDZ, then the blanks were transported to the palace. Falangcai was not at all accessible to outsiders. Its production method seems to have been carefully guarded until the end of the empire. There was only a limited number of items made for the palace. These items should of course all have official/imperial marks. Usually, that type of enamel is very thin, not like fencai enamel that can be felt with the fingers because it contains glass powder.
Thank you Peter and kardinalisimo, Peter you always amaze me by your knowledge, so the glaze in this is Fencai it has a very heavy enamel when running your finger over the top surface on the inside, the outside is thin.
Peter, i am getting confused about Falangcai. I thought that this was the Fencai decoration during early Qing, when the enamels were transparent.
I know they started experimenting with it during Kangxi in the palace workshop but what exactly are the characteristics of Falangcai. Was there also Fencai decoration during early Qing? Was Falangcai strictly made only for the court?
The problem may be that both are called "enamel" in English. Basically, falangcai enamel is thinner, and not necessarily transparent. This was developed from the enamel wares imported from the west, where the enamel is usually on a base of brass, copper or other metal. I think using the enamel on a porcelain base was a Chinese innovation. This started in the Kangxi reign, but basically it is separate from fencai, which was developed in the late Kangxi reign, early 18th century, also based on some western painting materials.
The enamel material is possibly different. I only know that fencai had glass powder, lead, etc. added, which make that enamel basically toxic. It is possible that Canton enamels used yet another type of enamel, but I have not enough information on that.
Hi Stan that's a lovely bowl I was looking at something similar last week.
I will start a new thread rather than hijacking this one.
Peter, can you tell me briefly what is this about?
http://topic.artron.net/topic/110114/
I am struggling with google translator. According to it, I see terms like Cloisonne, Pastel, Fencai Ci, Enamel
Thanks