Chinese Ceramics & Antiques Discussion

Antique Chinese Ceramics => Chinese Ceramics Discussion => Topic started by: rgomes10 on Nov 11, 2021, 05:57:05

Title: Real Ming?
Post by: rgomes10 on Nov 11, 2021, 05:57:05
Hello!
Can you help me, please? The stem cup, is it fake?
Thank you very much.
Best regards,
RGomes
Title: Re: Real Ming?
Post by: peterp on Nov 11, 2021, 09:02:39
A picture showing the whole item from the side, showing the stem, and more painting details might help. But I give you my take from what I see here.
The glaze and bottom look as if they could be old, possibly it is an old fake rather than a new one.
The flower painted in the inside and outside depicts a chrysanthemum, and it is painting in a Yuan style, although somewhat deviating from the one I would acknowledge as such. There are too few details shown, and the shape and stem proportions are not visible either.

Two things should be checked: one is the top rim - is it completely level or not?  The other is the stem attachment. Inside the stem you should be able to see the place where the stem was attached to the bowl. It should show that either glaze or slip oozed out from between stem and cup. The stem was stuck to the cup with either of them.

If authentic, this would be Yuan or very early Ming, but please be aware that with this type of item the above may still not be decisive. Such items are relatively raren and the current copies are sometimes too good to decide by pictures only. In some cases a hands-on inspection may be necessary, using a magnifier or microscope to check the condition of clay and glaze.
Title: Re: Real Ming?
Post by: rgomes10 on Nov 12, 2021, 00:08:06
Another photo
Title: Re: Real Ming?
Post by: rgomes10 on Nov 12, 2021, 03:31:13
More photos...
Title: Re: Real Ming?
Post by: peterp on Nov 12, 2021, 07:32:25
Thanks for the additional photos. I'm afraid it is a fake.
The shape is not right for a high foot cup. The stem is proportionally too short, the bowl too wide.The cup rim is also spread too much outward, it seems, it should be more upward, so that the cup is less shallow. Stem cups were meant for drinking. 
Inside the stem there should be no glaze and a light yellowish brown to grayish brown in color, with tiny dark dots from firing. This is too white. Also, the stem is spread a bit too much outward.
This is all on the presumption that this was meant to be Yuan or early Ming. My personal view.
Title: Re: Real Ming?
Post by: rgomes10 on Nov 12, 2021, 19:05:41
Thank you so much for your answer and knowledge.
Best regards,
RGomes