Chinese Ceramics & Antiques Discussion

Antique Chinese Ceramics => Antique Japanese & Korean Ceramics => Topic started by: askent on Apr 10, 2021, 19:20:18

Title: Chinese (???) or.... 43 cm wide plate (Blue-white)
Post by: askent on Apr 10, 2021, 19:20:18
Hi All,

What about this one, also from my fathers collection?
Title: Re: Chinese (???) or.... 43 cm wide plate (Blue-white)
Post by: peterp on Apr 10, 2021, 20:04:14
Moving this to Japanese ceramics board.
Title: Re: Chinese (???) or.... 43 cm wide plate (Blue-white)
Post by: Stan on Apr 11, 2021, 07:01:14
Hi Askent, the front is printed, and I could not find the marks in my books, but the bottom appears to be late 19th or early 20th century, possibly made in Arita.
Title: Re: Chinese (???) or.... 43 cm wide plate (Blue-white)
Post by: askent on Apr 11, 2021, 07:38:07
Hi Stan,
Thanks for your reply. But I dont understand when you say the front is printed and the rear is hand made, late 19th or early 20th. Is it possible that front and buttom are made at different times?...( one side is print and the other is hand made) or do I miss something by ignorance? Here I add a close up image
Title: Re: Chinese (???) or.... 43 cm wide plate (Blue-white)
Post by: peterp on Apr 11, 2021, 09:09:06
The Japanese started porcelain printing, or transfer printing, in the 19th century; that is much earlier than the Chinese. Anything printed if it was Chinese would be later in the 20th century.
Title: Re: Chinese (???) or.... 43 cm wide plate (Blue-white)
Post by: Stan on Apr 12, 2021, 01:52:44
It is possible that the back is printed as well, and hand painted, a close up of the back decoration is needed to verify this, the reason for transfer ware was to speed up the process of export, Arita kilns and others kilns, Arita being the biggest exporter, Arita is where they discovered pure porcelain and shipped it from the port of Imari, this ware took on the name of Imari, It was the English that discovered the transfer method in 1750 and I believe the Japanese started the process as early as 1850, the whole point was Imari porcelain was in high demand and to keep up with the high demand transfer printing was used, you can tell transfer printing by the lines all bing the same intensity in colour, for example hand painted item will start out dark and the line will get lighter as the artist progress until he dips his paint brush again and the line starts dark again, on certain pieces it is hard to see the difference especially if they are using a sharp object to paint.
Title: Re: Chinese (???) or.... 43 cm wide plate (Blue-white)
Post by: askent on Apr 12, 2021, 05:13:12
Thanks a lot Stan,
For your valuable detailed information. Any idea about its market value?
Title: Re: Chinese (???) or.... 43 cm wide plate (Blue-white)
Post by: Stan on Apr 12, 2021, 15:20:43
To me, anything printed will not have a very high collectors value, only the hand painted item will be more collectable.
Title: Re: Chinese (???) or.... 43 cm wide plate (Blue-white)
Post by: askent on Apr 16, 2021, 01:34:47
Here is a close up image of the back...
Title: Re: Chinese (???) or.... 43 cm wide plate (Blue-white)
Post by: Stan on Apr 16, 2021, 15:00:51
Great photo, the back appears to be hand painted.
Title: Re: Chinese (???) or.... 43 cm wide plate (Blue-white)
Post by: askent on Apr 17, 2021, 04:51:40
Thanks Stan;
What is your final opinion? Collectable or not?
Title: Re: Chinese (???) or.... 43 cm wide plate (Blue-white)
Post by: Stan on Apr 17, 2021, 09:01:02
My personal opinion on something printed is just not as collectable as hand painted but who knows, maybe you have an early example that another collector collects and might pay more to obtain it, you never know.
Title: Re: Chinese (???) or.... 43 cm wide plate (Blue-white)
Post by: askent on Apr 21, 2021, 04:22:36
Hi all:
Side view:
Title: Re: Chinese (???) or.... 43 cm wide plate (Blue-white)
Post by: peterp on Apr 21, 2021, 07:30:29
If you upload a picture of the seal marks to the left of the writing on the bottom, it might (or might not be possible) to get some information on the workshop or manufacturer which made it. No promise though...the text itself is  readable but does not provide a hint.

Title: Re: Chinese (???) or.... 43 cm wide plate (Blue-white)
Post by: askent on Apr 26, 2021, 19:28:13
I dont see any seal mark(?) but here is another close up
Title: Re: Chinese (???) or.... 43 cm wide plate (Blue-white)
Post by: peterp on Apr 26, 2021, 20:28:26
Unfortunately I can not help. The top mark seems to contain characters stylized in a way to make it look more pictorial. Too difficult to read. Only someone knowing it already may be able to tell what its content means. With a resource of Japanese characters it might be easier to recognize the fancy shape of the lower one (resembling a turtle).