Chinese Ceramics & Antiques Discussion

Antique Chinese Ceramics => Chinese Ceramics Discussion => Topic started by: MarieLouise on Dec 16, 2018, 16:29:27

Title: Wanli Kraak plate
Post by: MarieLouise on Dec 16, 2018, 16:29:27
I have this Wanli Kraak plate and would gladly ask your opinion about its authenticity, age and value. Thank you in advance
Title: Re: Wanli Kraak plate
Post by: MarieLouise on Dec 16, 2018, 16:30:06
This is the base.
Title: Re: Wanli Kraak plate
Post by: MarieLouise on Dec 16, 2018, 16:34:50
And the mark
Title: Re: Wanli Kraak plate
Post by: MarieLouise on Dec 16, 2018, 16:45:32
Another base picture
Title: Re: Wanli Kraak plate
Post by: peterp on Dec 17, 2018, 17:55:54
Definitely neither Wanli nor Ming. Although the bottom looks as if it might have some age, the decoration looks more Japanese. Not sure if it is printed.
Title: Re: Wanli Kraak plate
Post by: Stan on Dec 17, 2018, 23:39:02
I agree with Peter, the bottom looks old, I know that Japanese did do Kraak style 1690 -1710 but I never seen it with crackle glaze and the decoration looks strange for period also the mark looks like a modern Japanese mark.
Title: Re: Wanli Kraak plate
Post by: peterp on Dec 18, 2018, 07:45:48
Actually, such marks appear on Dehua kiln items also, usually two handwritten characters. But the decoration...I have seen it many times but cannot remember where or what it was. This one differs both from the Ming and Qing dynasty Kraak plates. If it is not Japanese, it would be more recent, but the bottom seems to have some age.
Title: Re: Wanli Kraak plate
Post by: peterp on Dec 18, 2018, 08:42:00
The shape is not resembling Kraak much. If it is a bowl, then there would be only a narrow edge present, while plates come with two different rim types. I would also like to point out that usually Kraak plates have a certain pattern on the underside and no mark. There seems to be an egret mark on some, according to the book written by Rinaldi, detailing such wares. Otherwise there are normally none.
Neither the Chinese nor Japanese Kraak wares she lists in her book resemble this completely. If it were not for the mark and base, I would think it is more likely European.
There are some Ebay sellers offering such plates as Late Ming. I do not believe they are from that period. This is not a traditional Chinese painting style. However, I cannot comment on whether the plates are old or not. They look as if they are, but the foot rim does not look like a Ming foot rim either.
Title: Re: Wanli Kraak plate
Post by: Stan on Dec 18, 2018, 08:45:25
Could it be from southeast Asia?
Title: Re: Wanli Kraak plate
Post by: peterp on Dec 18, 2018, 11:29:53
It might be Kangxi after all. It seems they made some variations of the original motifs, but not for long.  If it is, then it must be Dehua, because of the foot rim shape and mark. And the design is really already much off the original Kraak.
When searching for Kangxi Kraak it is possible to find more similar plates.
Title: Re: Wanli Kraak plate
Post by: Stan on Dec 18, 2018, 13:37:21
Kangxi and marked, that's pretty good.
Title: Re: Wanli Kraak plate
Post by: konniela on Dec 18, 2018, 15:19:20
I have seen pieces like this, decoration and mark, offered as shipwreck porcelain from the 17. Century.
Title: Re: Wanli Kraak plate
Post by: Rec on Dec 18, 2018, 15:35:00
Is the footrim not too wide ? Did chinese usually put their mark carefully on the centre of the plate?
Is it porcelain or tin glazed faiance?
Title: Re: Wanli Kraak plate
Post by: Stan on Dec 19, 2018, 02:14:34
I thinks a close up photo of the blue color would give us a better understanding of authenticity.
Title: Re: Wanli Kraak plate
Post by: Rec on Dec 19, 2018, 03:27:01
at 8 o'clock a part of the glaze is gone. could you please post a detailed picture of this area too