The whole piece is glazed over the paints.
Any idea if that was done to protect te enamels or is some kind of fake?
If authentic, what period?
Thanks
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Now when I look closer the deoration on the rim appears to be with more raised enamels. Is it possible it was added later?
Hi Kardinalisimo, this is a modern piece, I have a couple my self.
Are yours having glaze over and that green/yellowish tint? Browned foot rim?
No, yours are nicer than mine but the wemen are the same, same hair styles, and everything is out lined in black, maybe from the 50's or later, lets see what Peter says to be sure.
B.T.W can you wash that tar like dirt off the bowl or is it in the glaze, I washed mine with dish soap and it all came off and whitened up.
On mine it was put on to make look older.
Not everything is outlined in black and the contours are not bold. But the rim decoration looks a bit different. The foot rim cannot be washed because there is a glaze covering.
Same on nine, not everything but most of everything. I bought mine about 20 years ago, it was one of the first things I purchased, after finding Peters web site that is when I found out that the yellowish tar like substance that was on mine was added to make it look old, now it is just a conversation piece.
There are too few detail pictures for such a large item. The enlargements showing people's faces and rim decoration seems to be right for a late Qing decoration. Please pay attention to the faces, later ones usually paint them differently. The only recent one I know was probably overpainted completely in the old style, possibly to hide some repairs. But they used newer colors, which are brighter.
Stan, you should know how the 20th century faces, eyes and hairdo look. If you have any that you are not sure of, do not hesitate to show me ...
The big question is the overall yellowish brown look. A vitreous glaze does not turn this color. There are two possibilites: (1) dirty, (2) a transparent layer of something else was added, like lacquer, or something else.
First try to see if the top layer is pliable. Prick it with a needle. With a vitreous layer the needle should not go in. Heat the needle, if necessary. If it is some chemical compound it should be possible to cause a little hole. If the needle does not go in, the vitreous layer may just be dirty.
In that case, inspect first to see if there are any well hidden repairs. If there is none, try to clean the basin with some dish washing liquid or detergent solution. Maybe you have to repeat this a few times, if the color gets removed slightly.
If all this does not help, tell us.
Basically, if it is not dirty, then someone could have overpainted it with some protective chemical lacquer or similar, which then yellowed. The brown color could also indicate heating, but not sure.
>>>Just be careful, overpainted repairs may be difficult to detect, so first try in an inconspicuous place.
Hi Peter, this is the bowl that was covered in a yellowish tar color, it all came off when I washed it, I bought this about 20 years ago. This bowl I believe is a newer bowl.
Yes Stan, yours is newer. A typical 20th century item.
Good to see your bowl. I think mine is different. The colors are not that bright and shiny and the paintings look to more freely done. If you notice, on yours, the clothing on the people are all outlined. On this one, only some parts are.
I don't think I've seen before that key pattern interrupted by hearts and that other shape.
Peter, the porcelain appears to be very whitish as shown on the picture with the chip on the varnish. Would you recommend to try to get the lacquer off? Or leave it the way it is.
So, do you think it is late Qing for sure?
Thanks
Yes you are right, I haven't looked at mine in a long time, it has been in a cupboard ever since I found out it was new, I just pulled it out to take pictures, I can see yours is older, 19th century, Peter says.
Did you try washing? The needle test?
Do that first, then if it is pliable, take a cotton stick with some acetone and try to wipe the artificial covering off, if there is any. We don't want to damage the item. So, please examine each area closely. The covering might be intended to protect some repair. If it is removed improperly, it could expose the repair or remove it. Careful with this...if you are not positive you want to clean it, rather leave it.
Yes, late Qing, apparently.
I used comet to clean mine and it took it off completely, but try a little area first because comet can be abrasive if you scrub to hard, regular dish soap did not work on mine, that is if it is the same tar like substance that was on mine, but try Peters way first
Ok,
The foot rim was covered with thin layer of lacquer or something that I will be able to remove. The discoloration does not come off. Tried to wash it, even used wire brush but nothing works. I think it is on the underside of the coating.
The needle does not penetrates the top layer. But I have not tried to heat it up.
My theory is that the covering was put to protect the enamels. On some places, especially at the bottom of the interior, the paints have started to peel off. So, not a bad idea to preserve the piece but whoever put the cover did not do a great job as there are some wrinkles and marks. Plus, it left some dark green-brownish spots on the decoration and whatever color it is on the outside. I wonder if that is due to some kind of chemical reaction.
So, I guess the piece has to stay the way it.
I think Peter is right, it might be an old repair.
Hard to tell what it is. So don't use the acetone. It will likely soften the covering layer and it may never harden again.
Anyway, you know now why it is that way. Don't expose the bowl to strong light. Many lacquers and other glaze-like materials will discolor under light, although they may also do so without, depending on what it is.
By the way, there are three flowers on the exterior. Two of them are very similar but the third one is kind of sloppy. Any explanation?
I don't think that originally there were only two because it would look incomplete.
To me the first one looks old, but the second one either was overpainted or is completely new. Repainting some things is normal after a repair.
I also thought the second one was newer but I don't understand what kind of repair there could be? Like, there was a crack or a chip that was filled up/ patched with something? In this case they would glaze or put something over the whole exterior not only the damaged area right?
It could just be that the on-glaze colors were abraded to a degree that they thought it advantageous to repaint them. There may be repairs that you don't see...
I hope there was no full decoration on the exterior that was covered. I am not finding any canton/medallion/mandarin bowls with just the interior being fully painted. Is it common?
Also, Peter, have you seen before similar border with keys and the other objects?
Nevermind.
Turns out that the punch and other bowls are decorated on both sides. Water basins like this one, only on interior. The flowers on the outside and similar key patterns are present on most of them.