Are they from the period or later? Is it normal to have the marks in blue. They feature the same decoration but the marks are painted slightly different.
Any comments?
Thanks
Hi kardinalisimo, the yellow is the wrong color for Guangxu period, I think that this is a later copy, mid to late 20th century.
Stan,
What is the right yellow for the period. More bright?
Yes it would be a much brighter yellow, not a dirty dark yellow like yours, this color is a much later yellow in my opinion.
Hi Kardinalisimo, I just found a bowl on Christies past lots sold for over $5500 and the design is very similar to yours, at the top, the bottom of the bowl is the right color yellow but at the top the design was drawn in red, when fired the iron red color bled a little into the yellow color making a little darker, I can't tell if yours was drawn in red, looks like it might me. here is the photo, from Christies.
If you mean that Meander pattern, it is done in red.
This photo shows a lighter yellow than the other photos you sent, this is a much better photo, it looks authentic to me and they did use blue marks as well, I think a hands on inspection would be needed to authenticate.
Well, honestly I don't know if someone in my area can do that.
But even if authentic I don't think they are that valuable.
By the way, which pieces are the most sought and highly valued? Like shapes, types, periods,decoration, rarity etc... Seems like not every antique Chinese porcelain worth a lot.
Signed Guangxu bowls or what ever if it was authentic would be valuable, five digits.
You mean four digits?
I did a quick search on internet and don't see any impressive results. I know that the Bay is full of fakes but claimed period pieces are selling so cheap.
A pair is more valuable to the Chinese than a single, at a high end auction, Guangxu pairs could go into the 5 digit range.
If your bowls were authentic, they would be imperial and very valuable.
Stan, why they would be Imperial if authentic?
Because of the mark, it was only used for imperial porcelain, but comparing the dragon on yours to the dragon on the ones that sold at christies your dragon looks different, the scales are different on yours or it could be the small pictures you posted.
Here is a close up of the dragon. I guess there were general rules of drawing the beast during the period but don't know if every piece should have been painted exactly the same way. Probably depended on who the artist was as well.
I wonder if it is normal the reign marks to be slightly different. I am assuming the marks should have be done by the same person or not.
The dragons scales are completely different than the ones on Christies and there are several to compare, not one resembles yours, I think your instinct to being later is correct.
I cannot see good from the image you posted but I found some examples of Guangxu period pieces on Christies and Bonhams. Basically, I saw two or three different types of scales but all the dragons were very detailed and finely executed.
Here is a dragon like mine, not that detailed and similar scale. They claim to be period piece but it does not look like very reliable source.
http://www.xupes.com/Antiques-Fine-Art/Product-Details/3567/DRAGON-FAMILLE-ROSE-PLATE/Exceptional-Antique-Chinese-Imperial-Dragon-Famille-Rose-Plate-Guangxu-Mark-1875-1908.html
So, I don't know. I will keep researching. I am more worried about the painting quality of the dragon and not being that detailed. I guess the Imperial pieces from any period are much more fine than the regular ones. But, does the reign mark mean that if the piece is from the same period, it has to be Imperial. Was there a law that forbids the use of the dynasty marks on regular ceramics?
Stan may have talked about the blue reign mark. In the Guangxu reign blue reign marks were frequently used on official porcelain, made for the court, but the rules were not that rigid anymore in those times.
Don't get fixed on the mark. Whatever mark there is, it is not important. The porcelain body, base and decoration are much more important for deciding age and authenticity.
I have seen items of a similar type (not the same) that were made in the 1920s, but do not know for sure from when this is. Your pictures are just not close enough, and not showing minute details.
But, I can tell you that underside color decorations like those found on your plates usually mean it is late Guangxu or republican period, at the least. Could be much later, though.
If a collector has an item that he cannot decide for sure what it is, then it is usually best to keep it and wait until something similar appears. Sometimes time and increased knowledge allows us to decide by ourselves if an item is antique of fake. Don't try to force it, wait for your opportunity. All collectors have items of which they do not know for sure if they are genuine, and from when. But, before all, don't get fixed on marks.
Don't get me wrong about the marks Peter. Just in general I wanted to know if Imperial onces were used on commercial ware. I will post closeups later on. The side decoration is very fine and smooth. The face of the plate is also well done to my eyes. Just this dragon is bugging me.
You still get it the wrong way round. :-)
The term "imperial mark" describes the marks used on items made for the palace, which had to conform to the court's guidelines/rules in this respect.
Marks that were made in the same manner used on minyao porcelain were a possibility, but they were simply not "imperial marks", hence there is no such thing as an imperial mark on commercial were.
Another bump.
Sorry for reviving so old topic.
I have a question about the shape of the dishes. They are not perfectly round. One of the diameter is 18.1 cm and the other 18.6 cm. Is that considered defect or it is normal? If made for the court they should be perfectly shaped, or not?
Thanks