Chinese Ceramics & Antiques Discussion

Antique Chinese Ceramics => Chinese Ceramics Discussion => Topic started by: Claudio on Dec 20, 2016, 19:12:54

Title: Imperial yellow. Tongzhi mark
Post by: Claudio on Dec 20, 2016, 19:12:54
Hi Peter and Stan,

Today I'd want to show you one of my best pieces (if authentic). This time I took the pictures with with a smartphone because it gives a better color rendering in comparison to the reflex, but the wide angle distorts the image. H cm. 19.

Thank you!

www.dropbox.com/s/7zeqsh0wckwdgn0/20161220_105028.jpg?dl=0
www.dropbox.com/s/e1483iw96jbq7zy/20161220_105005.jpg?dl=0
www.dropbox.com/s/sj2w3yf12djhpz6/20161220_104936.jpg?dl=0
www.dropbox.com/s/103squwbas3pnk3/20161220_104859.jpg?dl=0
www.dropbox.com/s/um6kvqy591y1tmh/20161220_104842.jpg?dl=0
Title: Re: Imperial yellow. Tongzhi mark
Post by: carlyoung on Dec 20, 2016, 20:27:00
There was a glut of these style of pieces produced in the 1980's I understand, but to the untrained eye looking at a photo then it could be right , good to hear Peter's opinion.
Title: Re: Imperial yellow. Tongzhi mark
Post by: carlyoung on Dec 20, 2016, 20:37:57
I am just not convinced about the colour of the yellow and I don;t think the decoration is as good quality as an Imperial piece would be.
Title: Re: Imperial yellow. Tongzhi mark
Post by: heavenguy on Dec 21, 2016, 01:45:44
I agree, it looks recent.
Title: Re: Imperial yellow. Tongzhi mark
Post by: Claudio on Dec 21, 2016, 02:13:15
Thank you heavenguy and carlyoung. So it has been a wrong purchase.
Title: Re: Imperial yellow. Tongzhi mark
Post by: Stan on Dec 21, 2016, 02:26:10
Hi Claudio, could you post a photo of the whole vase.
Title: Re: Imperial yellow. Tongzhi mark
Post by: peterp on Dec 21, 2016, 02:59:27
You have to look at the details of the dragon too, but in my view the pristine bottom and mark look not as if they were of the period.
Title: Re: Imperial yellow. Tongzhi mark
Post by: Claudio on Dec 21, 2016, 04:29:13
Thank you Peter and Stan. Sure Stan, tomorrow morning I'll post more photos. Peter, if not of the period and not imperial, could it be considered a very good early replica?
Title: Re: Imperial yellow. Tongzhi mark
Post by: billbilly on Dec 21, 2016, 12:39:07
I have to see an extreme close up of the yellow.
Title: Re: Imperial yellow. Tongzhi mark
Post by: Claudio on Dec 21, 2016, 19:08:59
Hi Stan, here the photo of the whole vase, the color is not totally realistic.
Title: Re: Imperial yellow. Tongzhi mark
Post by: Claudio on Dec 21, 2016, 19:11:19
Hi billibilly, two close up of the vase.
Title: Re: Imperial yellow. Tongzhi mark
Post by: Stan on Dec 22, 2016, 00:59:25
Thanks for the additional photo's, I agree with Carlyoung's assessment of age, the two additional photo's of the color show to many spots, they look like they were added to to give the impression of age.
Title: Re: Imperial yellow. Tongzhi mark
Post by: Claudio on Dec 22, 2016, 01:30:34
Thank you for your answer Stan, but the spots are corpuscles of dust, I have removed them now with a rag. The close up is very strong, so I didn't notice them before taking the pictures. Sorry, I should have cleaned the vase before show it to you. Stan, I found a mark very similar to this one in a lot sold at Christie's in 2010, may I post the link? Maybe it could testify in favour of the vase ?. Regards.
Title: Re: Imperial yellow. Tongzhi mark
Post by: Stan on Dec 22, 2016, 08:40:27
Hi Claudio, if you want you can post the web address here and then we can go directly to the site our self, I hope I am not speaking out of place,  I think that is the way that it is allowed on this site. BTW that has happened to me several times taking closeup pictures, even glue residue from old lapels make it look distorted or in your case spots.
Title: Re: Imperial yellow. Tongzhi mark
Post by: Claudio on Dec 22, 2016, 18:23:32
Thank you Stan. Here is the link:

www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/a-famille-rose-yellow-ground-magpie-dish-tongzhi-5348131-details.aspx
Title: Re: Imperial yellow. Tongzhi mark
Post by: peterp on Dec 23, 2016, 02:14:53
What should be similar with the item at the link? Except that it has a four character Tongzhi mark and a yellow background all is different. It is impossible to tell from such pictures at the given link is authentic, but even if it is, we would not be able to tell, most likely. This plate would be imperial ware, made for the wedding of the Tongzhi emperor. Careful with items using this decoration. There are lots of fakes using it.

I agree with what was already said, the vase does not look as if its quality would be sufficient for imperial ware.
Title: Re: Imperial yellow. Tongzhi mark
Post by: Claudio on Dec 23, 2016, 05:24:50
Hi Peter, I'm certainly convinced it's unlikely that my vase could be imperial. I've posted the link with the intention of comparing the two four characters marks, so similar in the handwriting feature to lead to think a possible correspondence of time or even of author. I read that the tonghzi mark is infrequently couterfeited, mainly the six character one, so I hoped at least in a possible M&P. But I'm convinced of your opinion. Thank you for your patience and expertise.