Chinese Ceramics & Antiques Discussion

Antique Chinese Ceramics => Chinese Ceramics Discussion => Topic started by: Stan on Jan 24, 2015, 03:52:31

Title: Youtang Wang large vase
Post by: Stan on Jan 24, 2015, 03:52:31
Hi Peter, I just picked this up at the local auction, the vase is attributed to the Republic Period 1912 - 1949 and is bearing the artists signature it is 56.9 cm tall, the detail is top notch in this style the white ground is very white and very little age signs, there appears to be a stress crack at the bottom near the foot, could you tell me if there is a date and if it is signed by the artist, I know that most of this type the written characters are in bad shape and faded these are not but this is a large vase and would have been used as an art object rather than utilitarian use, your expertise is always appreciated, I will post 15 photos, thanks for viewing.
Title: Re: Youtang Wang large vase
Post by: Stan on Jan 24, 2015, 03:54:18
Here are more photo's to view.
Title: Re: Youtang Wang large vase
Post by: Stan on Jan 24, 2015, 03:56:51
Here is another set of photo's.
Title: Re: Youtang Wang large vase
Post by: Stan on Jan 24, 2015, 04:00:30
Here is the last set of photo's, thanks for viewing, P.S. I post a pair of vase awhile back that I think were supposed to be from this artist but I think they were touched up, but this vase the quality is far superior. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Youtang Wang large vase
Post by: peterp on Jan 24, 2015, 07:55:15
Hi Stan,
Very nice Qianjiang vase. Not sure if it is authentic. The writing is black and there are no clear age signs. However, the name is given as Wang You-tang, there is a month, but no year. First, I need to say that his style is very well known, possibly many of the later artists did copy his works. He was apparently specialized on painting people and landscapes.
He is said to have been most active during the late Guangxu reign to early republic. I do not know if the writing is authentic. It is excellent, can be read easily, but it would be necessary to compare the calligraphy with an authentic work. That is usually necessary to verify if the work of a master painter is authentic, when no clear age signs are present.
Title: Re: Youtang Wang large vase
Post by: Stan on Jan 24, 2015, 08:06:08
Thank you Peter, for giving me the right reading of his name, and the good sense for comparing writing, I will see if I can find out anything on the web, thanks again.
Title: Re: Youtang Wang large vase
Post by: Stan on Jan 24, 2015, 09:33:15
Hi Peter, I did a search and a couple of items came up, I could not figure out where the signature is on my vase to compare, could you tell me where it says Wang You-tang on my vase, thanks.
Title: Re: Youtang Wang large vase
Post by: peterp on Jan 24, 2015, 14:25:44
It's the first three characters on the last line. The last line is the one where the seal is applied.
Title: Re: Youtang Wang large vase
Post by: Stan on Jan 24, 2015, 21:35:31
Thanks Peter, I found a couple of pieces by Wang You-tang, the black characters look similar with no missing black enamel and not ware, but it all looks the same to me, thanks I will try to compare the name, there is a couple of pieces on Gotheborgs site, but I do not know if what he has is authentic.
Title: Re: Youtang Wang large vase
Post by: Stan on Jan 25, 2015, 01:13:31
In my search, all I could come up with was a couple pieces that say they are from Wang Youtang but they hardly look like a master painted them, they are actually crude and poor quality, so no such luck in my search.
Title: Re: Youtang Wang large vase
Post by: peterp on Jan 25, 2015, 08:00:27
> but I do not know if what he has is

That is the problem...one should have access to an authenticated piece. I'm afraid that what is on non-museum sites is hardly admissible for comparison, especially if it is in the west, because minor differences in the writing may not be detected.
Title: Re: Youtang Wang large vase
Post by: Stan on Jan 25, 2015, 10:37:12
The west is not a good place to compare, that is the problem, thanks peter for all your help.
Title: Re: Youtang Wang large vase
Post by: calder on Jan 26, 2015, 17:25:58
Hi Stan you could look at this site for reference .
whether the site has original  pieces and not fake I don't know but worth a look.
Your painter is half way down the page.

www.koh-antique.com/qj/qjmain1.html
Title: Re: Youtang Wang large vase
Post by: Stan on Jan 27, 2015, 03:19:46
Thanks Calder, I will take a look.
Title: Re: Youtang Wang large vase
Post by: silk on Feb 04, 2015, 07:31:55
Hi, it says painted  in fall of 1936 (year of ??), but not likely authentic. The calligraphy looks not good to me.
Title: Re: Youtang Wang large vase
Post by: peterp on Feb 04, 2015, 07:59:30
silk is right, Stan!

Oh my, we have been looking over this repeatedly and did not see this. Thought the ? was an abbreviation of ?  as the  ? is so close that it looks as if it were part of the upper character. So much to the handwriting...

1936 or 1876 -  While this type of Qianjiang might fit into the year 1876, the vase itself cannot be that early, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Youtang Wang large vase
Post by: peterp on Feb 04, 2015, 08:19:03
There is one other thing - I have been looking for evidence that the character ? in the same column as the year was used in this simplified form in earlier times. It is a simplified character nowadays used in the PRC.  I could find no proof of its existence, not even in the Kangxi dictionary. The normal writing should be  ? . If that is correct and it was never abbreviated like that in earlier times, then it means that the writing has to be from the era of the  PRC, not earlier than 1956.
Title: Re: Youtang Wang large vase
Post by: Stan on Feb 04, 2015, 10:08:36
Thanks Peter, and thank you Silk.
Title: Re: Youtang Wang large vase
Post by: Stan on Feb 05, 2015, 08:32:51
Sorry Peter and silk, here is a photo of the left side, I do not see the character the Peter is talking about, it all looks Greek to me.
Title: Re: Youtang Wang large vase
Post by: peterp on Feb 05, 2015, 09:17:52
Which one?
? is the first one,  ?? is the third respectively fourth character, both in the second last line (second column from the left).
Title: Re: Youtang Wang large vase
Post by: Stan on Feb 05, 2015, 10:04:54
So not earlier than 1956, thanks Peter.