Qianlong marked bowls

[calder]

Hi , I have two bowls with this mark.
What would they be used for? are they lids?
Also , are the marks Period?
One again thank you.
Alan

[calder]

Sorry they  Measuring approximately 4?" diameter, 1?" deep, 1?" base diameter.
Alan

[calder]

Hi also if not to difficult a question why is the "5" character Qian(see I'm learning)  different in marks?....one is in reverse?
Thanks Alan

[peterp]

Alan, although Chinese is a more pictorial type of writing, when people write they sometimes write characters with slight differences. That is the same as when we write in our Roman alphabetic letters. Different people use different styles.
So that is only a variation that is not important, really.
Some may be saying that if that part looks like a "2" it is wrong. However, both are acceptable. Only with imperial marks that part ALWAYS has to look like a "5". But, as private kilns had more freedom in this respect, they could use either. Neither of them is wrong.

[calder]

Hi Peter,
Thank you for the explanation.
When you look in books they give you a box standard mark.
I have also read as you said that people  have dismissed this reversed "5" as wrong.
Also the "Qi" character should have 5 spikes.
Can I ask your opinion on the "Qi" character.
Thanks in advance.
Alan

[peterp]

What do you mean with "qi"? Daqing Qianlong Nianzhi has no "qi".
Anyway, the characters are sometimes written differently, even wrong, but in my view that is no reason to judge that an item is not of the period. Such things do happen with the marks written used by private kilns. Many things are possible, and often it is not a matter of right or wrong.
Only with the marks on imperial marks were there strict rules, and mistakes or character variants could not be used.
I can assure you that with high quality fakes the marks are usually right.  :-)
Anyway, marks cannot be used for judging the authenticity of items, as explained in the marks section of the site.

[calder]

Hi Peter forgive my ignorance.
I was reading this article whether correctly written I don't know.
http://gotheborg.com/qa/qianlongmark.shtml
As I have a few few items with  three "candelabrum" also with  five
I was wondering why he would be suspicious of the mark with three prongs.
Alan

[peterp]

That is the character "zhi", which means "made or manufactured".
The normal character would have only three prongs. It was the rule that imperial items with archaic seal type marks would have five.
So, three means that  is not imperial, but as explained before, it does not mean something is wrong or right. The private kilns had less restrictions and used three, or occasionally five, the same way they were free to use other marks. With the imperial kiln everything was strictly regulated. Marks with three prongs can still be mark & period, but not imperial, normally, although there may have been a few exceptions to the rule.
The M&P only means that porcelain was made during the period (reign) that the mark states. Many antique Chinese antiques use marks of earlier periods, and for that reason are not M&P.

[calder]

Hi Peter.
Thank you for your time.
You have a gift for explaining in terms I understand.
Cheers Alan