Republican period famille rose "willow leaf" vase?

[westeagle]

Hi all,  I am new to the forum and appreciate the opportunity to participate.  I came across this famille rose porcelain vase recently and am slowly learning more about Chinese porcelain since acquiring it.  It seems to me to be an interesting, "painterly" and fairly well executed scene with what appears to me to be fairly good detail on various subjects in the scene, particularly the horses and their riders.  The vase has what seem to be numerous small iron spots, some flaws on the underside from the kiln as well as a flaw in the vase lip which also appears to be from the time of firing.  The mark...  is it apocryphal? I am guessing yes.  Well, am I right in thinking that this is a reasonably well done Republican period vase or ?  I really appreciate any and all thoughts and information on this vase; thanks very much for reading and checking it out. 

[peterp]

Willow leaf? That should be a pine, I think.
Would be nice if you could upload more pictures to make sure of a few details. The detail from the lower vase is late Qing dynasty/ Could you upload a closeup shot of the people in the upper part of the vase?
In addition good pictures of the vase mouth and bottom could help confirming age. Does it seem only so or are there crackles in the glaze? Can you show that too with a partial picture?

What would be of interest is a good picture showing the tree. I believe this is not from the same period as the rest of the vase. Of special interest would be how the shoulder decoration ends near the pine tree. Vases of that period often had little or no decoration on the back, only in front and at the sides. It could be that the tree was added to fill in the gap here.

[westeagle]

Thank you so much for your interest Peter; I am just navigating the forum and it didn't seem that it was possible to add more images.  I will try to add some now. 

[westeagle]

Trying to send more images but can't seem to figure out how...  ah, here goes.  Am I correct in thinking the apocryphal mark may have been added at a later also?  

[peterp]

Thanks for the pictures. Yes, to me it looks as if that part with the people is from about the Guangxu reign. The pine tree was cleverly added just besides the building. Anyway, its coloration and the style of the trunk do not appear to be from the same period. This was added or re-painted at a later time, probably. The white color areas also look as if they were re-painted. The green interior of the vase mouth was over-painted or added later too, it appears. The surface glaze faults and inclusions possibly mean that this was fired at a lower temperature. That would have been necessary with any later painting, otherwise the original decoration would be damaged by the kiln heat. 
The mark looks old, but if they had an old seal, they could also have added this later.
Not necessarily, though. In the Guangxu reign the most common apocryphal marks would have been Kangxi marks, the Qianlong marks were more often used afterwards, but Qianlong marks are also encountered on Guangxu wares, occasionally.

[westeagle]

Thank you for this Peter! Very interesting. So, is this mark Kangxi reign? Does the addition of content at a later date affect the value significantly? It is somehow no surprise to me that the vase mouth colour was added at a later date; perhaps to attempt to hide an original firing flaw?  
I meant to add that the willow leaf referred to the shape of the vase; I have seen this shape thus described. The idea that the pine tree and rocks may have been added at a later date makes sense now when handling the vase...  

[peterp]

Kangxi marks were only mentioned by way of explanation, it is a spurious Qianlong mark.
Yes, additions and modifications affect value. Whatever is added, the time it is added is the last time worked on. So, if a Qing dynasty item was modified/repainted/over-painted, etc. the last time is the time this was finished. 
I think most collectors would not want to add this to their collection, but in my view this is a valuable piece for learning about such things, because you can examine these hands-on. I once bought a small vase just to inspect what the seller said was mended. As a result now  I have a vase that looks like new and I do not really know if it was restored or is in fact a completely new item.  :)

[westeagle]

Thank you Peter; agreed, this has been an amazing learning experience having a piece like this in hand.  Between your inciteful observations and comments, and Peter Combe's very interesting YouTube videos I feel like I have had an excellent start to my education in Chinese antique porcelain.  And with the ten dollar investment in the thrift shop vase I certainly haven't broken the bank with my aquisitions...  yet!  :)  I thank you again Peter for taking the time to share your knowledge with myself and others through this forum; it is very much appreciated.  Best wishes from Salt Spring Island, B.C., Canada,
Chris.