Ming Dynasty Xuande 宣德plate

[john8888]

Diameter; 50 cm High 8 cm
The blue and white porcelain produced by the Jingdezhen Royal Kiln during the Xuande period of the Ming Dynasty (1426-1435 AD, the reign of Emperor Xuanzong Zhu Zhanji of the Ming Dynasty) plays a very important role in the history of Chinese ceramic development. It is famous for its simple and elegant shape, crystal clear glaze color, and colorful patterns. Compared with the blue and white porcelain of other dynasties, its firing technology has reached the highest peak and has become one of the famous Chinese porcelains. His achievements were praised as "unprecedented in a generation". "Jingdezhen Ceramics Record" commented on Xuande porcelain: "All materials are exquisite, and blue and white are the most expensive.
The Ming Dynasty Xuande official kiln blue and white is famous for its simple and elegant shape, crystal bright glaze color, and colorful patterns.

[peterp]

Maybe you could let us know where this item currently is, so that we can visit the actual site? Anything of that type should be in a museum or major collection, if genuine.

To be sure, there appear to be several problems when compared to items with the imperial collection housed in the National Palace Museum. For example the color of the blue pigment used, but the wave decoration of the rim is also not what a guide book issued by the culture office of China tells us, if it was Xuande reign. Some other details also seem to differ a bit from authentic Xuande quality wares.

[john8888]

I have this item in Seattle US. I have difficulty time to determine if it is genuine or reproduction. I wish you can help me or direct to me what to do next step.

[peterp]

My advice is do not buy this if you didn't already. It appears to be apocryphal. To be sure, an item of this size, it was really imperial, would likely be a six figure at an auction, because the authentic items are rare.

[john8888]

Hi, Peter;
I wish you can tale look at the picture of back side where you see a mechanical cutting among an circus rotation machine. During AD 1266 is they have a rotation mechanic machine? or it is current people do it? 

[john8888]

Hi, Peter;
You look at the picture of back side where is a cutting image of rotating machine. My question during AD 1366 the people can have a rotatory machine made this tray? or it is a recently people doing this? Can you give a your view?

[peterp]

It is made using an electric carving tool, which rotates.

[john8888]

Dear Peter;
Here are your comments on this plate;
To be sure, there appear to be several problems when compared to items with the imperial collection housed in the National Palace Museum. For example the color of the blue pigment used, but the wave decoration of the rim is also not what a guide book issued by the culture office of China tells us, if it was Xuande reign. Some other details also seem to differ a bit from authentic Xuande quality wares.

We found a plate of  年号洪武，1368年——1398年,the first imperia that show very similar decoration of rim.
The color of blue pigment was changed by your web post. The real picture of plate is good blue.

Thank you for your comments.

[john8888]

We found a plate of  年号洪武，1368年——1398年,the first imperia that show very similar decoration of rim. This plate is collection of ******. I  he lives in Taiwan. They show this item at the *** Collection of Chinese Porcelain at YouTube. You may be know him with ********,  中华文物收藏学会理事长.

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[peterp]

You can post a link to the plate, if it is in a museum website.

We are not endorsing any specific websites or products by private institutions, that includes private organisations, associations and collector clubs, auctions, etc.. That is because too much of the related information on the Internet is fake, or relates to fake antiques, fake collectors and dealers of fakes, etc.  Taiwan is no different. 

I have heard people here say the following:  "First a collector is cheated, then he cheats himself, and later cheats others."
(What they mean is of course that the beginning collector is cheated, then he cheats himself, and later, when he becomes a seller he is cheating others.

Probably every collector can relate to the first two, but the third...that is an attitude that (unfortunately) many have in greater China; this includes China, Hong Kong, Taiwan. I don't have much contact with (and regard for) Taiwanese in respect to antiques because of this, despite being located there.

The problem is simple, money...or making money, becomes too important for people. Real collectors read books or online information from reliable sources. They are not limited to associations and other places where those with money interests go. They are more interested in studying the facts that museum researchers, archaeologists, etc. provide. There is no need looking at other sources, at least not here.

[peterp]

Discussion is a method of information exchange, but it should be based on each participant's own learning and experience, not of that of others. Collecting Chinese antiques requires years of experience. My guess is that those wh spend mess than five years studying specific areas in the field will leave...
Novices will often pay attention to difficult but interesting items which are not available to the average collector. They will start with Yuan blue and white, early Ming top items that would really cost five or six digit figures if authentic. And I heard some talk about Ru wares which they think they can find. If they would pay attention to the numbers acknowledged to be authentic by major museums, they would realize that they will never get them.

This said, my view and experience is that analysing items, checking many individiual details is the only way to go. Many do not even see the differences in color or other minor details, but these are often the most important. But it takes time to learn...

[peterp]

>>>  We found a plate of  年号洪武，1368年——1398年,the first imperia

Four questions:
- How do you know something is Hongwu and 'imperial'?
- What has your plate (marked Xuande) to do with Hongwu?
- Why does a Ming plate (yours) have a Yuan dynasty dragon instead of a Ming style dragon?  Is so completely different...
- And you may have some explaining to do why your Xuande plate has an unglazed bottom, while those in major museum collections are known for a glazed bottom. (Only Hongwu items are known for unglazed bottoms.)

You can check this with the online collections of the NPM (Palace Museum Taipei) and DPM (Museum collection of Palace in Beijing).

I'm aware that there are no rational answers to my questions above. What I would ask every collector to do is analyse such discrepancies and draw the inevitable conclusions, whether the items is your or someone else's. This means not to do what I earlier said, namely cheating oneself. And when you cannot get a conclusion put the it away for some time. Often much later such problems resolve themselves. And do not get involved with rare high-class or imperial level items unless you are at the level for that.

[john8888]

Peter;
I am appreciated all your comments. 
I am a life science researchers many years but study on Chinese ceramics at beginning levels. I repeatedly read your comments several times make sure I understand you.
john