Rose medallion miniature vase

[Adriano]

I would like to have an opinion on this vase I have,15 cm tall about.
The bottom shape and the gilded decoration look of old type, the mark itself was common during the Republic period.
The clear orange color is more typical of old pieces.
Looking at the decoration instead, that is not of good quality, I think at a late period.

Thank you.

[peterp]

Famille rose, apparently Canton enamel. The mark means it would probably be about 1890 or later.

[Adriano]

Hi Peter,
thank you for your input.

[Stan]

Hi Adriano, usually anything that has China in English is not very collectable, at least to the Chinese, it is my understanding that China marks were used from late Qing to  1920.

[peterp]

Hi Stan,
What I say seems to be changing now because authentic antiques are less availability in China now, due to government restrictions in their trading. Before most Chinese had little interest or knowledge in regarding export porcelain. I doubt that anyone there would be much interested in export items like the famille rose medallions, etc. Despite the Chinese motifs, they are clearly export only.

And yes, I believe the "China" mark started to be used sometime late 19th century, because of a requirement frome the 1880s? by the US government that the origin was to be mentioned on import items. This said, naturally this would have been meant predominantly for export to the US. But it was not always applied it seems.
The other things I know in this respect is that the "Made in China" marks started to be used in the 1920s, but I have information that questions the accuracy of these data.
I have a famille rose plate here that has two stamped red marks, one I cannot read, the other says "Made in China". Comparing its decoration with a book of pictures from the Guangzhou (Canton) museum the decoration is hardly later than the Guangxu reign. In addition I found underglaze blue  "China" marks in two of my Chinese language marks books, one of them said it was mid-Qing dynasty. Probably, sometime in the early 19th century. There are other underglaze blue western marks, some bilingual others not. Unfortunately, the picture of the said underglaze China mark shows only the bottom of the item. But looking at that I do not think it would be 20th century. I even think if it was not meant for export, the Chinese would have hardly bothered marking it; it looked as if it was not a very high quality bottom.

What does all this mean? Maybe with the mark is is similar as with the the decorations marks made as per requirement of the foreign trade houses in Canton? Western marks might have been much earlier around than those from after the requirement from the 1880s, mentioned above.

Just my personal assumption.  :)

[Adriano]

Hi Peter and Stan,
Thanks for this interesting exchange of views.

[Stan]

Thanks Peter, I always appreciate your thorough explanation.