Blue plate with chengua mark

[hoogenbosch67]

Hello Peter, for difficult things i will come to you. Whats your opinion on this plate with Chengua mark. Can you see certain marks on the decoration/ bird/ flowers. I add 12 photos with macro

[hoogenbosch67]

Extra photos

[hoogenbosch67]

Extra photos

[hoogenbosch67]

Daylight photos and dimensions diameter 25,5cm - height 3cm and weight 454gr

[peterp]

Not sure how the foot rim looks because it is photographed from straight above. At an angle showing the sides of it clearly would normally be better.
But, after looking at the plate I see several things that might be pointing to what it is.
First, as you know the mark is spurious. The style of the plate is resembling export porcelain; it might be very late Qing but some features point to it being Japanese (this not taking the rim shape into consideration).
First, the Chenghua mark is probably more often used on Japanese porcelain than on Chinese, it is often found even on more recent items. I do not remember having it seen on late Qing items, though, apart from crackle ware. A blue ring on the bottom near the foot rim is usually a Japanese feature, not a Chinese one.
Decorations in underglaze blue do appear on Chinese porcelain on Kangxi wares, but usually only branches, etc., not this kind of full fledged flower. The central floral decoration shows chrysanthemums (typical Japanese) in great detail, whereas peonies would be more likely found on Chinese wares.
Nothing of these is conclusive, though. If the foot rim is of the 18th century type, it still is possible that it is export, otherwise it may be Japanese or newer. Did you look at the glaze bubbles in the blue color?

[hoogenbosch67]

Extra photos bottom and details

[peterp]

Thanks. The foot rim is not 18th century Chinese. The decoration style and blue pigment would be Qing at the earliest, I think.
Some floral details (e.g. edge shape of leaves) are not painted in a way commonly seen in Chinese wares, but it is not possible to exclude these. Normally, with BW export wares late Qing items will use Kangxi marks, early republic often use Qianlong marks, but not Ming marks. Overall, this cannot be Ming, but a spurious Chenghua mark on BW porcelain?
Unless it was made to order for Japan this may be more likely Japanese made.

I'm afraid you will have to find something similar to confirm what and from when this is. Just to emphasize what I mentioned earlier, lots of Chenghua marks are more often than not found on Japanese porcelain, not Chinese. This would not be the only Ming mark the Japanese were/are using on their wares.
Please post here if you find out something more definitive.

[hoogenbosch67]

Thanks Peter for your information. I will let you know what more i will find out. Greetings Jan

[hoogenbosch67]

After contacting several experts the object is expected as follows.

19th century Chinese blue-white plate with Kangxi decoration and Chengua mark.

Thanks for your help and input. Greetings Jan