Celadon bowl

[Stan]

Hi Peter, here is a Celadon bowl, it looks old, although I have some questions, the foot looks strange and so dose the decoration, I have found conical bowls with 3 boys on the front decoration but this dose not look the same, the ones I found were 11 century, the decoration on this I could not find, how old do you think this is ? The diameter is 21.59 cm and the thickness is very thin almost a 1/16 of an inch and it was hand turned and the decoration was hand carved.

[Stan]

Here are more photo's to view.

[Stan]

Here are the last of the photo's, thanks for your expertise.

[peterp]

I would say Song dynasty bowl with impressed decoration. There are many variations of the decorations. They may also depend on the kiln. I'm more familiar with white wares of certain kilns. Sometimes it is difficult to find exactly the same decoration. I cannot remember having ever had  the opportunity for a hands-on viewing of one with a boys' decoration. Not sure if it is Southern Song or not. Anyway, the bottom, shape and top rim all clearly point to Song dynasty. Generally said celadon decorations are more likely from the south. If it is, Jingdezhen is most likely the source.
I must say that it is in excellent condition.

[peterp]

Not sure why you think the foot looks strange...if it is the brown color and the adhering dark material, that is a natural result from firing. These bowls were fired standing on a small round firing support placed inside the foot rim. At the very least there should be dark circle visible. Not always is the whole are brown/black, either must be present. If there is nothing it is usually more likely a modern fake.

[Stan]

Hi Peter, thanks you for your answer, that is great, Song dynasty, what do you mean by dark circles, their are slight rings on the bottom of the foot from the kiln is that what you mean?

[peterp]

The interior of the foot (inside foot rim) needed to remain unglazed to avoid the items was stuck to wherever it stood. With this type of ware a cylindrical or tube shaped support would have been inserted there to support the bowl during the firing process. Every spot where the support was in contact with the bowl had the potential of showing firing traces (the black or brown areas). The whitish area outside the circle, immediately along the rim would not have been in contact. Any dots you see there may have been something adhering to the support or bowl that got burned and left a trace.

You shouldn't expect ancient support to be something like the modern stilts, etc. They were very crudely made of rough clay. Actually their surface it looks as if they contained lots of sand grains. You won't get a clean circle, and the if the surface was uneven only the places in contact with the bowl would leave a trace.

Here is a page with pictures showing Lonquan kiln items. Some of them show the black traces of firing supports, while others show the crude supports that got fused to the porcelain piece during the firing. In such a case both the item and support would have been discarded as the got unusable.

tinyurl.com/2s3mpydm

[peterp]

Please note that not all Song bowls have firing traces on the base. Some items, especially Ding wares were fired upside down, leaving the top rim unglazed. That is the origin of the gilt or metal rims you may see. This concerns mainly bowls and plates/dishes only. The upside down firing in the saggar allowed for more bowl or plates being fired in the same space.

[Stan]

Thanks Peter, on this bowl it looks like they used sand, here is a closer picture of the bottom, their are three areas that look like they have sand from the kiln.

[peterp]

Hi Stan, the sand may have been on the supports, or even enclosed on their surface. Even the periods with the best quality in the Qing dynasty do occasionally show traces of grit or sand. And this would be so much older.
Have a look at the kiln supports in the picture...could these result in a very clean and uniformly colored color? They were unimportant for the item, and thus roughly made, saving time and cost. And many would have been discarded after using them once or twice.

[Stan]

Thanks Peter, that is really interesting, and very educational.