Japanese plate

[konniela]

Hello to all here,
last year, I saw this plate and I tried to find out more about it, but I was not able. Today, I searched again, but I can not find the mark or a piece to compare with. It seems to have some age, but I really don`t know, where I have to put it in.

[konniela]

more photos

[Stan]

Hi Konniela, Im not a hundred percent sure but I thinks the right side down reads Hizan Arita, Yama-ka seisu and the left side top down reads, Go-sin-zen, Made around 1830 - 1844, I would like to comment on the dragon, it is done in the Chinese style, if it is from the dates given, it would be an exact copy of a five claw Chinese dragon. This also has the 3 to 4 lines circling the bottom inside and outside of the foot which is typical of Arita potters and one more thing that bothers me is the mark itself, it is perfectly centered Japanese marks like these were almost always off centered, however this could be an exception.

[konniela]

I have never seen a japanese piece with such a dragon, first I thougt it is chinese, but not with this mark. There is an old book with marks online for everybody, I made a screenshot from one side, maybe it can help.  https://www.museum.wa.gov.au/maritime-archaeology-db/sites/default/files/hooper_phillips_pottery_porcelain_marks_1894.pdf

[peterp]

Stan, it cannot be Hizan, because 'zan' is the same as 'san' (mountain). It would be 'zen' has a different meaning. I had to ask my 'inhouse' for the fifth character as I could not read it.

Info on this manufacturer can be found by searching for "Hizen Arita Reikōsha" (肥前有田励工社), that is a company name.

[peterp]

>> I have never seen a japanese piece with such a dragon, first I thougt it is chinese

So would I have...look at the dish I posted in Stan's most recent post in the Chinese Ceramics board, above.

[Stan]

I referenced the book " Japanese Marks And Seals by James Lord Bowes " on page 79 under Hizen, they have a mark that is the same on the right side and then on page 76 it shows the same marks on the left side but the left side marks are questionable. I think this is an old Arita Plate that has been redecorated at a later date, that is just my personal thoughts.

[peterp]

This only has reinforced what I suspected, that my dishes are Japanese. Never saw this type of dragon before or perhaps did not realize that the Japanese copied Chinese dragons to such a degree on porcelain.

[Stan]

I agree Peter, this is the first or second counting your plate, this is a high degree Japanese copy of the Chinese dragon.

[konniela]

Old plate redecorated, yes, now it makes sense. I think, this is not a "must have", but I learned a lot one more time.

Thank you