Not sure if this Chinese or Japanese

[LipHoe]

Dear Peter

I have inherited 2 plates Chinese charger 12 inches in diameter. I am not sure if it is Chinese or Japanese. The decoration around the rim is more Japanese but the base of the plate has Ming decorations (3 coins and ribbons and 3 circulars around the base). Please ignore the middle mark NIO as this is marked by my grandmother with green paint.

I appreciate for your comments.

Regards

Albert

[Stan]

Hi LipHoe, at first I thought Japanese Arit ware, but Old Arita ware would have kiln spots on the bottom, that tells me if it were Japanese Arita it would be early 20th century, that is my gut feeling on these two Plates, the Japanese were always copying the Chinese and visa versa with Chinese.

[Stan]

LipHoe, do you know what the initials on the back stand for, it almost looks like your grandma might have marked them NIP instead of NIO for NiPPon which means Japan.

[peterp]

These plates are Japanese. The base and foot rim do not look Chinese, and the underside decorations seem printed. Images of top are not close enough to tell for sure, but at least the top plate  gives the impression that it is all printed.

Stan, not all Japanese plates have visible support points. Sometimes they are on the foot rim. The rim appears to be glazed, but they must be somewhere. The item cannot be suspended in air during firing. I'm sure a hands-on inspection would reveal them.

[Stan]

Hi Peter, I am not sure how they support the bottom in the kiln when firing the later arita ware, but I have noticed on later arita ware there is a center dot on all of the examples, and the bottom of the foot is unglazed, Im sure that there would be some kind of support around the unglazed part of the foot as well as the centered mark, it may be that on the unglazed part of the foot it dose not show up.

[LipHoe]

Thank you for everyone to clarify the items. Would any one can explain the symbol of the 3 coins intertwined on the back of the plate (see picture).

In regard to the initial on the middle it is my grandmother's Chinese surname which is NIO. She had the items for a long time and she died back in the 1978 when she was 68.  She was born in Makassar (Ujung Padang now) in Indonesia. Makassar was a trading post between Chinese,Indian,Arab,Siamese,Malay and the local since the 16th century.  I never asked her how she got the items but usually any precious items was handed from one generation to other.

I have another item to be clarify (see photos). Unfortunately the plates was broken into pieces when I had some visitors. One plate is superglue together the other was too hard to repair. I appreciate any comments.

[peterp]

Cannot help with mark. This could be original or added later.
The painting style looks neither Chinese nor Japanese, although obviously a Chinese motif was copied.
Normally, I associate this painting style with fake items painted in Indonesia, imitating Chinese porcelain. It could be that the plate had little or no blue decoration, and someone did add the current design to make it appear more valuable.

As you can see, the base and underside decoration is the same as with the other plates. However the color tone of the blue on top and below is different, and it is printed on the underside.

[LipHoe]

Thanks Peter.