Qialong marked vases - Repair on a copy ???? what on earth ?

[george1968]

Hi guys.

I am very puzzled and I need help here


I have 2 Qialong marked vases. I am trying to see
if copies or originals.



Please see pictures, vase 1 is with pictures
named Qi, vase 2 with pictures named V2.

Vase 1 is 1501 gr. but vase 2 is much heavier it is 1808 gr.
They have different perimeters, V1 is about 63 cm, V2 is about 62 cm



As per my research
most things pointing as these copies of
PRC ca 1950's.
ok till here, me as non experienced I take this
no problem
but something puzzles me and I try to figure out
what's going on.


1st question. Are these 2 vases the so called egg shell porcelain ?
How can I tell ?

2nd set of questions.
Notice Vase No. 2 on the neck. The neck has a cream colour ( not white ).
It seems  the neck is dipped to a kind of cream clay covering the
bright white enamel of the vase neck.

This is clearly evident by the appearance of a chip that reveals underneath the bright
white enamel ( photo with the red arrow pointing to the chip ).
Also looking inside the neck
the creamy yellow subtance covers the neck up to a point ( where the arrows stop )

Vase 1 is just bright white in the neck, no creamy dip or something, everything white.
Checking on top of the neck, at the mouth perimeter, at the lip, in Vase 1 is 3-3.5 mm, but in Vase 2 it is thinner, it is
2-2.5 mm, so again another point that shows that Vase 1, it must have been dipped to a kind of material.

Notice the green variations in colour in Vase 1 , in the area
defined by the arrows ( no colour variations in Vase 2 ) .

The marks in the Vases ( if that means anything ) seems centered at the bottom 
( that points possibly original ) well not absolutely centered by the way
but on the other hand they  are coral red ( pointing also that perhaps they are original )

so the questions here
What is this kind of repair on the Vase 2 ?
and how is it called ?

3rd set of questions. ok they are copies but why on earth somebody to make a repair
on a lousy copy ???? Is this repair a sloppy one just to raise the value of a damaged vase ?
Are repairs like these common ?


as you understand I am trying to see if these are originals
many thanks in advance for any possible assistance

I WILL POST ADDITIONAL PICTURES INA  REPLY TO THIS POST

[george1968]

more photos

[george1968]

another photo

[george1968]

more photos

[george1968]

this is about the 2nd vase ( without the repair )

[george1968]

that is all about the 2nd vase

[peterp]

First I would like to mention that this is not a Qianlong vase. The bottom/foot rim is typical for later, 20th century items. The vases are not egg shell, egg shell is much thinner, and highly translucent. This does not look as if it was from the Qing dynasty. This kind of Qianlong mark is typically found on 20th century items, as decoration.

Yes, the yellow area above the flower shows a repair. Is the area inside where the glaze looks different farther down from this area? If it is farther down, it would be necessary to see the outside at that height. From that single picture inside the neck it could be that the upper part was attached to the round body at a later time. That happens sometime when an item is damaged. However, judging by the look inside the neck it is more likely that a repair was covered.

The chip on the top rim could indicate that indeed an original glaze was covered with another glaze later. But it is not necessarily a fired glaze. If you test with a needle, pricking the glaze inside the mouth, is it soft or hard? If it is soft it could be a so-called cold glaze, used in restoration to imitate a fired glaze. You can do the same in the yellowish area, because chemical components are usually used in repairs, which are not hard. You could not insert a needle in a fired glaze. If the whole was refired, the original decoration might have been affected too, so that is less likely. The most probably thing is either that the top part (the neck) was replaced or repaired, and then an artificial (cold) glaze was used to cover the traces of this. You can also include the possibility that the yellow area is all that was repaired, but then the inside was covered with an artificial glaze farther down. Some items are covered to a great extent with artificial glaze with the only purpose to hide a relatively small repair.

[george1968]

MANY MANY THANKS for all this !
I tried with a needle inside, it is soft, I tried to scratch and it gets easily scratched. I tried softly next to the chip. Result ? a new chip ! The neck is of length about 14 cm, the yellow area inside the neck is ca 11.5 cm.
I now conclude that there is a repair after all. My best guess is the following. My father in merchant navy, bought this in North Vietnam in 1981 in a government store allowing sale of porcelain only to foreigners. The store had several items that survived the bombing of many years and lots of them were damaged. So I guess this was a 20th century production, damaged, repaired and put on sale. Again thanks for all the answers.