Is this Chinese or japanese and is their a date

Stan · Nov 29, 2020, 17:28:12

Hi Peter, I could not find this mark in my books on Chinese or Japanese, could you read it and is their a date, Thanks you for your help.
Stan

peterp · Nov 29, 2020, 17:37:13

Chinese. Translated it means Product of Jingdezhen Art Porcelain Factory. I do not know their correct English name, but the company seems to be still there. There is a full address given online, in Jingdezhen City, Zhushan District.

Stan · Nov 30, 2020, 02:53:39

Thanks Peter, I will post more photo's, even the decoration is confusing, providing I win the bid I will post more photo's, thanks so much.

Stan · Dec 03, 2020, 10:45:08

Hi Peter and all, here is the vase, this is called Cong vase, with the cranes it looked Japanese, thanks for letting me know it is Chinese, the auctioneer said post 1949 ? hMMM your thoughts are appreciated

Stan · Dec 03, 2020, 10:50:55

Here are two more photo's to view, thanks for all your help. Is this Qianjiang enamels? they are not glossy and are dull colors.

peterp · Dec 03, 2020, 11:44:28

Stan, you know that this means it is 2nd half of the 20th century, but it may be difficult to pinpoint it more exactly, unless you find a similar already dated one.
No, that is not Qianjiang. Qiangjiang has no real enamels and originally some had rather faint colors. The most important is that Qianjiang is more like a real Chinese painting painted on paper or a scroll. That is how it originated, some people fond of painting tried painting on porcelain first in the Daoguang reign, as far as I know. Unfortunately the few works they did do not seem extant.
Qianjiang decorations: https://tinyurl.com/y4frm2vj

Stan · Dec 03, 2020, 15:19:23

Thanks Peter, I know it is the 2nd half, I have not seen this decoration before it is a pretty busy pattern, im not sure when it was made, I can say this, who ever owned it was a smoker, it had cigarette smoke or nicotine all over it, when I cleaned it the colors looked much brighter, thank you for all your help, so we know it was made in Jingdezhen art porcelain factory, thanks again.
Stan

peterp · Dec 03, 2020, 15:58:05

A few decades perhaps. The overall feeling is that of a Japanese inspired motif. Cranes appear in Chinese decorations mainly in combination with immortals or longevity/immortality motifs, but they are not as dominant as in Japan's classic arts where it almost is THE bird.

Stan · Dec 04, 2020, 09:36:35

Yes, I have a large Japanese Bronze vase with silver overlaid cranes, the cranes look identical.

Stan · Dec 09, 2020, 01:56:01

Hi Peter, what made me think that it might have been QianJiang enamels is none of the colors in this vase reflect light all of them are dull, but they are thicker than any that I've seen, that is why I was thinking Qianjiang.

Adriano · Dec 09, 2020, 04:20:27

Hi Stan,
I think it is not Qianjiang enamel for these reasons:
- Qianjiang enamels are not thick and not detected by touch
- There is no calligraphy
- The subject is no one of Qianjiang (landscape, birds an flowers, human figures)
The vase looks me Chinese for the background: this cloud motif is widely used in cloisonné items made by Jingfa Company in Beijing.

peterp · Dec 09, 2020, 07:59:17

Basically, Qianjiang were using a completely different type of color material. It had a different consistency. Many of the early Qianjiang paintings in the 19th century were indeed thin, and due to the type of color used, the were also quite faint (no strong colors). But towards the turn of the century some brighter colors started appearing and they soon got thicker. That is probably because they were not the original colors anymore, though they were still using the same painting style.
From about the turn of the century (1900) in fact some well known Qianjiang painters started using a new type of enamel. I believe this is what they call "new" fencai. It seems that the introduction of the brighter color material lead eventually to the disappearance of Qianjiang, decades later. There are a few examples of this, mostly paintings of similar objects like flowers, which were painted repeatedly over decades, and one can see this change of thin colors to thick enamels.

Stan · Dec 09, 2020, 08:28:12

Thanks Andiano, and Peter for your good input.

Adriano · Dec 09, 2020, 16:58:23

Thank you Peter for the detailed explanation on Qianjiang enamels.
This clarify me why I have some pieces with thin enamel and other with thick enamel; the second ones have really brighter colors.
I have a piece with landscape subject that have thin enamel apart the flower on trees that are thick.
I think that in this case the two type of enamels were used: probably it was a test to go to the new enamel

Stan · Dec 10, 2020, 04:52:20

Nice Qianjiang Adriano and I agree Peter is always thorough in his responses, we are luck to have someone so experienced in Antique Chinese Porcelain and other things as well.
I was looking at the photo's I took and realized that the gold ground look brown instead of gold, here is a better photo showing the gold ground.