Better Fakes

[Stan]

Here is a vase I just bought, I was amazed at the detail, this vase is new in my opinion, this is the first time I have seen one that has prick marks in the glaze to draw the decoration, the rust spots look authentic and their are dead bubbles, and some bubble bursts on the bottom, also the mark itself is just like the ones you see at the high auction houses, I think the shape is unusual, the neck and mouth are to wide and the double swirl on the bottom might not have been in the Qianlong period, Your thoughts are welcome.

[Stan]

Here are more photo's to view.

[Stan]

Here are the last Photo's to view, thanks for your feedback.

[peterp]

I'm afraid you are right, Stan.
First the shape, it obviosuly should be a Shangping vase, a type that originally was made in the Qianlong reign, probably by the imperial kiln, that was used mainly as a present. The proportions seem to be a bit off with this one.
Please refer to these examples for a more regular shape of a shangpin vase -- in the Palace Museum in Peking:
www.dpm.org.cn/collection/ceramic/226902.html
www.dpm.org.cn/collection/ceramic/228071.html

The prick marks look as if they are protruding in the picture. Are they? The marks should be tiny holes, but if they are protruding, they might have been made 'after' painting the mark, whereas the clay or glaze was perhaps accidentally pulled outward by the needle.

And yes, the swirl decoration is one sign that it could be a fake, but this is not always reliable. The greater problem is the thick tip of the  dragon tail, which appeared that way only in the late Qing dynasty, not yet the Qianlong reign.
Further, it looks in these pictures as if the blue pigment has a slight purplish tint, which would mean it is unlikely Qianlong. To me it seems unlikely that it is an 'old' copy from the Qing dynasty ...

[Stan]

Sorry I did not include a photo of the prick marks, they are protruding outward, here is a photo of that, it is hard to capture the same blue, I am not seeing any purple in the vase itself, I think my lighting is not good, I will try to get an exact color match, this is the first time I have incountered prick marks in a fake, I do not think this is late Qing as you mentioned the shape is not quite wright even for late Qing, however I did see a shape very similar on Christies past lots same shape dating to the 18th century, a large blue and white vase, sold at New York / 13-14 September 2012.

[Stan]

Hi Peter, I took the photo's on a cloudy day, here is one under artificial light that is pretty close to the actual color,

[peterp]

Yes, the color looks better now.
Prick marks should be holes, always. There is no way they could be protruding. So this alone is decisively telling us that some age faking was going on.
As to the shape, there may be some variations, but the others may not necessarily be "shangping" vases, and they cannot be from 'any' time in the 18th century; they have to be from the Qianlong reign or later. As far as I know this type of vase shape was created during the Qianlong reign with the express purpose of a present by the court to deserving recipients. You will see that the neck is proportionally thin and more curved, while there is no outward bent mouth rim.

[Stan]

Thanks Peter.